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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware (04/01/17)

Wyrdness said:

The actually has, the predecessor to the Master System the SG-100 mk2 launched after the NES. Even Gen 1 and 2 is a mash up of such cases as well.

Actually SG-1000 is classified as a 3rd-generation console same as NES, but you're right that there are 1st Generation devices that launched after the first 2nd Generation device did.

Still without a defintion other than "+1" these generations where consoles are grouped together are meaningless, we may as well just have "Sony's 4th generation Console", "Microsofts 3rd Generation Console".

If Sony started releasing successors every 7 years, and Nintendo every 4 years... well then we'd eventually be saying Sony's console released in 2041 belongs in the same group as Nintendo's console launched in 2029, which just doesn't make sense and at that point... why even group them together? Why are two consoles released by two different companies over a decade apart grouped together?



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Barkley said:

Actually SG-1000 is classified as a 3rd-generation console same as NES, but you're right that there are 1st Generation devices that launched after the first 2nd Generation device did.

Still without a defintion other than "+1" these generations where consoles are grouped together are meaningless, we may as well just have "Sony's 4th generation Console", "Microsofts 3rd Generation Console".

If Sony started releasing successors every 7 years, and Nintendo every 4 years... well then we'd eventually be saying Sony's console released in 2041 belongs in the same group as Nintendo's console launched in 2029, which just doesn't make sense and at that point... why even group them together? Why are two consoles released by two different companies over a decade apart grouped together?

That's the thing the whole definition of gen will be dropped in the coming gens because of how the market has changed, from how things are looking now MS is going down the route of pushing their ecosystem as their platform which could mean multiple Xbox models and GFW on PC to just the one PS platform while Nintendo with a hybrid would be more independent of the competition due to the portable market also being catered to.

Under these changes releases of new platforms would be even more independent of the competition due to each platform holder now catering mainly to a different branch of the industry. It'll simply be like how the majority of consumers see it in that rather than gens they'll simply see it as the new PS/Xbox/Nintendo platform as gens can no longer define them, it's a term that is becoming outdated.



Wyrdness said:

That's the thing the whole definition of gen will be dropped in the coming gens because of how the market has changed, from how things are looking now MS is going down the route of pushing their ecosystem as their platform which could mean multiple Xbox models and GFW on PC to just the one PS platform while Nintendo with a hybrid would be more independent of the competition due to the portable market also being catered to.

Under these changes releases of new platforms would be even more independent of the competition due to each platform holder now catering mainly to a different branch of the industry. It'll simply be like how the majority of consumers see it in that rather than gens they'll simply see it as the new PS/Xbox/Nintendo platform as gens can no longer define them, it's a term that is becoming outdated.

Well I agree on that, for the time being Nintendo will continue to have regular successor devices due to the portable nature of there devices and the rapid growth in mobile technology.

While After PS5 and the Next Xbox, who knows if there'll be another generation for them, or if it'll just be incremental upgrades till a likely cloud/service based future.

Either way I agree, generations as we know them are soon to be gone.



3ds still strong af in Japan.



Shadow1980 said:
...

You're late your entire argument has already been answered earlier when replying to other people and has already been countered with one simple fact, Switch also succeeds 3ds, as I mentioned earliar even if you try to argue the PS4/X1 argument Switch still classes as a gen 9 platform because it falls into the usual succession definition in the portable market so either way Switch is a gen 9 platform.



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NATO said:
peachbuggy said:

Tbh the graphs were so small i couldn't even see the figures. Again, your projections are based on hope, what actual evidence do you have to predict the switch will fall into a baseline under the ps4? Especially when sales are purely related to stock atm. Whatever comes into the retail channel is sold out within literally hours and i don't see that changing any time soon.

you're not worth any further effort, i'll let the reality of the next few months of sales data educate you instead.

The graphs are a bit small. Are there larger versions anywhere?



Ka-pi96 said:
Wyrdness said:

You're late your entire argument has already been answered earlier when replying to other people and has already been countered with one simple fact, Switch also succeeds 3ds, as I mentioned earliar even if you try to argue the PS4/X1 argument Switch still classes as a gen 9 platform because it falls into the usual succession definition in the portable market so either way Switch is a gen 9 platform.

What gen was the Gameboy? What gen was its succesor the Gameboy Advance?

Following your logic of each handheld being exactly 1 gen after it's predecessor would that not make Switch 8th gen rather than 9th?

I talked about platform lines that are just launching can be considered part of the active gen going by the usual defintion earliar on if you read through the posts, going by the first portable released in Gen 3, GW, GB, GBC, GBA, DS, 3DS and NS would make NS Gen 9.

Either way like someone else concluded what ever definition you follow means little now as the industry moves away from typical gens.



Wyrdness said:
Zekkyou said:

If Sony, MS, and Nintendo all released new consoles in 2021 (highly unlikely, but this is just a hypothetical), would you consider them all 10th gen, or the Switch 2 10th and the PS5/X2 9th? If the former, then that would imply syncing is at least somewhat relevant to what generation you're in. If the latter, then generations being groups starts to break down (and dissolves into absurdity if you take it a step further).

I should note i do consider the Switch to be a 9th gen system, but i'm struggling to follow where you draw the line for generations. It doesn't really matter (i don't think the idea of generations is particularly useful anymore), but i'm curious nonetheless.

That question is answered already, if they all released a new platform at the same time they wouldn't be the same gen because Switch 2 would be 10th gen, gens in how you and others are arguing in how they are defined were already absurd to begin with, they were never uniform to begin with it just appeared that way because companies were reacting to their competitor's moves.

What you're seeing now is nothing new it's been happening since gaming's early days, traditional gens aren't dying out the industry has just come back round full circle. What further adds to this is that even if you were to argue PS4 and X1 and we went from that angle, Switch is still a new platform for the portable market as well succeeding another gen 8 platform and all of a sudden the PS4/X1 arguments become null and void because in the so called traditional sense of gens Switch follows that notion in the portable market hence why I look at it as what the platform is suceeding.

How I and others are arguing? I've not presented any arguments at all, I just presented some hypethicals to better understand your own. As I said, I ultimately don't think it matters. I was just curious ^^



Zekkyou said:

How I and others are arguing? I've not presented any arguments at all, I just presented some hypethicals to better understand your own. As I said, I ultimately don't think it matters. I was just curious ^^

How is the word arguing something to get upset over explain? Presenting a scenario is presenting an argument or debate.



Ka-pi96 said:
Wyrdness said:

I talked about platform lines that are just launching can be considered part of the active gen going by the usual defintion earliar on if you read through the posts, going by the first portable released in Gen 3, GW, GB, GBC, GBA, DS, 3DS and NS would make NS Gen 9.

Either way like someone else concluded what ever definition you follow means little now as the industry moves away from typical gens.

Why do you count GBC as a separate generation but not DSi and New 3DS?

Because that's what GBC is, planned as a stop gap until the GBA arrived and given BC to help consumers migrate to it it was handled like a separate platform from the specs to the library, DSi and N3DS only have a few games exclusive to them and not an entire library. I never understood why people class them as one platform.