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Forums - PC Discussion - RPCS3 Persona 5 OpenGL vs Vulkan

BasilZero said:
VGPolyglot said:
Are those both emulators? 2 different groups of people working on them?

 

What is?

OpenGL and Vulkan? They are both different APIs (Application programming Interface). Software that is key to rendering 2D or 3D graphics.

OK. I'm a noob when it comes to PC software like that.



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VGPolyglot said:
BasilZero said:

 

What is?

OpenGL and Vulkan? They are both different APIs (Application programming Interface). Software that is key to rendering 2D or 3D graphics.

OK. I'm a noob when it comes to PC software like that.

Pretty often, if not always, something like that exists on consoles as well. I think PS3 supports OpenGL, and Xbox One supports Direct3D 12 (at least for the most part; I'm not sure if it supports if fully). Roughly speaking, they're interfaces that tell programmers how to instruct the GPU to handle graphics. Different APIs (such as OpenGL and Vulkan) can lead to the same result, but using them is different.



Bandorr said:
Zkuq said:

Emulation is not piracy! They're often related, but not always, and they're definitely two very different things.

Sure. If you buy the game. And really the point of the games is to get you to buy their console. And their controllers. And their services etc.

What percent of people that will "emulate" these games - own a PS3/Ps4? What percentage will even bother to buy the game?

That percent that doesn't? Is pirating it.

Emulation is not piracy regardless of how much you wish to associate emulation with it.

Hell. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony do Emulation in various forms to retain backwards compatability with their consoles.

Bandorr said:

And for Zelda and the switch? With CEMU making 43k a month?

Nintendo shuts down fan made Pokemon games. Games that people put in 100% of the work, and are only using the assets. What do you think they will think about another company making 40k+ a month to put toward creating something whose sole purpose will be to play THEIR games on systems THEY aren't porting to?

Doesn't matter what Nintendo thinks about Emulation and it doesn't matter what Nintendo writes in their Eula/ToS... It cannot override your consumer rights or the law.

Emulation was made legal when Sony lost their court case on ALL accounts against the Emulator "Bleem".

As for bringing up fan-made games, that's a straw-man argument, it has no relevance to Emulation.

Bandorr said:

Isn't the main reason the PC has DRM to prevent piracy? I rather not imagine consoles having to use crappy DRM just to prevent people that are "emulating" them.

DRM hasn't stopped piracy on the PC though. - But you know what has made piracy implode on the PC? Lower prices, more availability. You can thank Steam for that.
Apple ironically did the same for music with iTunes, music piracy used to run rampant in-part thanks to the likes of Napster, WinMX, Limewire etc'.
Apple made music more widely available at a lower price and almost eliminated the issue entirely.

And slowly streaming services are doing the same for TV and Film.

Bandorr said:

I will do what you can't though - ignore you. You are desperately downplaying everyone and their information simply because it is something you want.

We get it. You hate emulation and see no value in it.

Emulation helps keep platforms alive even after the platform holder has long abandoned it.
It can also help build developer ecosystems for new mods/games to be released for older platforms, the Dreamcast is still getting game releases even today.

VGPolyglot said:
Are those both emulators? 2 different groups of people working on them?

It's comparing the performance/graphics between the two API's. It's a piece of software that sits between the hardware and game/emulator... Instead of building a game directly for the hardware, you build it for the API instead.

Also a few of the consoles like the Playstation 4 use OpenGL and Vulkan, Microsoft has built it's own competitors aka. Direct X 11 and 12 for the Xbox One.

Also, in general Vulkan should have superior performance to OpenGL.



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Pemalite said:

DRM hasn't stopped piracy on the PC though. - But you know what has made piracy implode on the PC? Lower prices, more availability. You can thank Steam for that.
Apple ironically did the same for music with iTunes, music piracy used to run rampant in-part thanks to the likes of Napster, WinMX, Limewire etc'.
Apple made music more widely available at a lower price and almost eliminated the issue entirely.

And slowly streaming services are doing the same for TV and Film.

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. People really need to get this through their heads - there's almost no piracy on PC because of Steam. Sure, most games are still released on torrent trackers but that's true for ps4 and xboxone games as well, even though neither of the two consoles is still cracked open. People just don't bother with them. It's vastly more convenient just to wait for a sale on Steam, or heck even use a dubious site like g2a. Not to mention all the bundles like humble bundle.

Lower prices and easy access allowed people that don't have a lot of money and could not afford to pay for the game to be able to buy those games at a later date. And that's all most people that pirated games wanted. There was really nothing nefarious about pirating in the past. It was mainly people that couldn't afford paying full price (read people in less developed countries).



zero129 said:
Bandorr said:

Piggybacking off of Svennoj url

"The most pirated Wii game was Super Mario Galaxy 2, with 1.28 million downloads. Mario Sports Mix (1.09 million downloads), Xenoblade Chronicles (950,000 downloads), Lego Pirates of the Caribbean (870,000 downloads) and FIFA 12 (860,000) rounded out the top five most pirated Wii games list"

Those seem like pretty huge numbers imo.

"Specialist site TorrentFreak estimated, using several sources of data, that Crysis 2 was downloaded illegally nearly 4 million times (3.92 million)."

Isn't the main reason the PC has DRM to prevent piracy? I rather not imagine consoles having to use crappy DRM just to prevent people that are "emulating" them.

You and Svennoj do both understand that both the wii at the time and the wiiu where both very easy to softmod?.

In other words the biggest part of them pirates are not playing them games on an emulator but on the modded consoles..

Also can we please stop turning every emulation thread into a thread about piracy.

Emulation does not = piracy.

Yes you can play pirated games on an emu. but you can also play pirate games on any console that has an emulator released for it.

Before an emulator can be made the console itself being hacked is one of the key parts. This is why you almost never see an emulator before the actual console itself has been hacked open.

And now they don't need to softmod the console anymore as emulators have caught up...

Can we stop promoting emulators that play brand new games?



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Safiir said:
Pemalite said:

DRM hasn't stopped piracy on the PC though. - But you know what has made piracy implode on the PC? Lower prices, more availability. You can thank Steam for that.
Apple ironically did the same for music with iTunes, music piracy used to run rampant in-part thanks to the likes of Napster, WinMX, Limewire etc'.
Apple made music more widely available at a lower price and almost eliminated the issue entirely.

And slowly streaming services are doing the same for TV and Film.

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. People really need to get this through their heads - there's almost no piracy on PC because of Steam. Sure, most games are still released on torrent trackers but that's true for ps4 and xboxone games as well, even though neither of the two consoles is still cracked open. People just don't bother with them. It's vastly more convenient just to wait for a sale on Steam, or heck even use a dubious site like g2a. Not to mention all the bundles like humble bundle.

Lower prices and easy access allowed people that don't have a lot of money and could not afford to pay for the game to be able to buy those games at a later date. And that's all most people that pirated games wanted. There was really nothing nefarious about pirating in the past. It was mainly people that couldn't afford paying full price (read people in less developed countries).

So piracy has driven PC games prices down to the point most AAA games need console versions to stay alive?
Music is shit nowadays so not a good example either ;) Napster -> iTunes killed the well constructed album. Those are rare nowadays.
And I'm living proof of how false that last statement is.

Btw, there's almost no piracy on PC?
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-state-of-pc-piracy-in-2016/
2.5 billion game downloads on bitTorrents in 2014 by about 400 million unique users, mostly in the US, Brazil and UK.



The pride is strong in derailing the thread. Even in the face of other information. Still it's not going to stop the progress of Emus like CEMU and it's certainly not going to stop people from "promoting" it either. 



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So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

SvennoJ said:
Safiir said:

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough. People really need to get this through their heads - there's almost no piracy on PC because of Steam. Sure, most games are still released on torrent trackers but that's true for ps4 and xboxone games as well, even though neither of the two consoles is still cracked open. People just don't bother with them. It's vastly more convenient just to wait for a sale on Steam, or heck even use a dubious site like g2a. Not to mention all the bundles like humble bundle.

Lower prices and easy access allowed people that don't have a lot of money and could not afford to pay for the game to be able to buy those games at a later date. And that's all most people that pirated games wanted. There was really nothing nefarious about pirating in the past. It was mainly people that couldn't afford paying full price (read people in less developed countries).

So piracy has driven PC games prices down to the point most AAA games need console versions to stay alive?


Btw, there's almost no piracy on PC?
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-state-of-pc-piracy-in-2016/
2.5 billion game downloads on bitTorrents in 2014 by about 400 million unique users, mostly in the US, Brazil and UK.

Riiiight...that's why there are so much more games ported to PC, because lower prices have killed profits. Come on! Steam is raking millions and every developer wants to release their game on steam. The prices ARE lower but this is more than compensated by the huge increase in people buying those games.

And torrent downloads are an incredibly flawed way of gauging piracy. What you should be looking it the amount of downloads through GOG, Steam, even Origin.

Take a look at Steam - https://www.statista.com/statistics/547025/steam-game-sales-revenue/



Just a quick question about this will you require a Persona Disc to play this on the Emulation?



SvennoJ said:

So piracy has driven PC games prices down to the point most AAA games need console versions to stay alive?
Music is shit nowadays so not a good example either ;) Napster -> iTunes killed the well constructed album. Those are rare nowadays.
And I'm living proof of how false that last statement is.

Btw, there's almost no piracy on PC?
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-state-of-pc-piracy-in-2016/
2.5 billion game downloads on bitTorrents in 2014 by about 400 million unique users, mostly in the US, Brazil and UK.

Yes, individual songs have increased in sales rates and Albums have decreased, but general music revenues are up since iTunes and Music streaming services gained a foothold. And that's at the expense of piracy.
I remember the mid-90's how prevelent music piracy was, even before the internet was invented.
http://www.rockitboy.com/blogs/music-industry-sales-piracy-and-illegal-downloads-better-or-same/

******************************

2014 was a long time ago in PC terms.
That article also mentioned Ubisoft who used bullshit claims like "93% of PC gamers are pirates". - Let that sink in.
Asassins Creed sold over 0.91 million copies on PC (According to VG Chartz). - That means 11+ million copies on PC? That doesn't include digital either.

Or Ubisoft's Far Cry with it's 2.5 million copies sold on PC would mean it would have shifted 32.5+ million copies if Pirates didn't exist. Ain't happening sweetheart.

PC Digital sales accounted for 23% of Ubisoft's revenues in the first financial quarter of 2015/2016 where as the PS4 was 27% and the Xbox One was 11%.
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-pc-accounts-for-nearly-a-quarter-of-ubisofts-first-quarter-sales/

PC gaming is growing and growing, to over 35.8 Billion dollars... And it still isn't stopping. Clearly piracy isn't an issue.
http://hothardware.com/news/pc-gaming-six-times-more-revenue-than-consoles-in-2016

Now of course if you look at the 2014 statistics you provided, the sample rate was extremely small, it only included the top 100 games so it was never going to be accurate by any measure anyway.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--