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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundary: Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: Switch vs 3DS/Wii U

Pemalite on 23 April 2017
StuOhQ said:
Pemalite said:

...the Nintendo 64 was rendering most games at 320x240 and a few at 640x480. Which was shit. It was always going to look blocky or blurry.

Compound that with a 4Kb texture limit, limited cart space, S-Video/RCA-Video output and things weren't ever meant to be pretty.
Plus, the Nintendo 64 applys a blur to the Horizontal lines, which is not part the Anti-Aliasing method... And the Anti-Aliasing method also adds to the blur by blurring the screen...

Fair enough. 

The bilinear filter on the N64 was rotten, to be sure. The AA really crippled the 2D assets, though. When disabled (through emulation, modding, or using a game-shark), the there is a noticeable improvement in clarity. 

Pulling the veil off of the game by removing the bilinear filter DOES reveal some pretty noticeable dithering, but I still prefer the sharp look. To each their own, really.

Everything worked against the Nintendo 64 to make games look the way they did. It's not soley due to the pretty primative AA implementation that's for sure.
I love emulating Nintendo 64 games and cranking everything up. It's a night and day difference, that clarity it brings is fantastic, but the blurryness is always going to be there because of other factors.
Just need the RSD to be emulated more accurately and I'll be happy.

I still can't believe people in this thread believe the Nintendo 64's AA is somehow comparable to AA of today though.



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Peh on 23 April 2017
Pemalite said:
Peh said:

Do we really need to go that far if we wanna talk about 720p aa vs 1080p without aa?  

720P with AA and 1080P without Anti-Aliasing... WHY should it even be an option? Why not have Anti-Aliasing with both modes?
At 720P (handheld) it should be a requirement. 720P is a crap resolution to begin with, it needs all the help it can get. 1080P is better. But it still needs Anti-Aliasing.

Even at 4k there is benefit to having Anti-Aliasing.

Like I already said, we don't know why there is no AA on 1080p. Maybe it looked bad, maybe it impacted the performance too much too hold 60 fps, or maybe because it is a racing game, no one would be really bothered.

Image Quality depends on the screen you are using (resolution of that screen and what ppi it has) and at what distance you are away from the screen. Smaller Resolution on a higher Resolution Screen will always look bad, because of upscaling. AA will make it worse imo.

For PC gaming I am using a 27" for 4k (~50cm away from it)  and 55" 4k at a distance of 3 meters. You don't really need AA anymore, because the pixels are at such a small size, that aliasing is hardly noticeable. FXAA does the job pretty much done. But if there is still room for performance I go with 2x or 4x MSAA / TXAA 1x max.

Pemalite said:
StuOhQ said:

Fair enough. 

The bilinear filter on the N64 was rotten, to be sure. The AA really crippled the 2D assets, though. When disabled (through emulation, modding, or using a game-shark), the there is a noticeable improvement in clarity. 

Pulling the veil off of the game by removing the bilinear filter DOES reveal some pretty noticeable dithering, but I still prefer the sharp look. To each their own, really.

Everything worked against the Nintendo 64 to make games look the way they did. It's not soley due to the pretty primative AA implementation that's for sure.
I love emulating Nintendo 64 games and cranking everything up. It's a night and day difference, that clarity it brings is fantastic, but the blurryness is always going to be there because of other factors.
Just need the RSD to be emulated more accurately and I'll be happy.

I still can't believe people in this thread believe the Nintendo 64's AA is somehow comparable to AA of today though.

I don't know at what screen you are looking at, but the N64 was made for CRT's in its mind. And that really did its job on a lower resolution TV. It looks like crap on modern TV's, though.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Peh on 23 April 2017
curl-6 said:

The weird thing is that Nintendo did use AA on some of their Wii U games, but not others.

Hopefully future Switch titles like ARMS, Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade 2, etc get back into the habit, it's not a good look for their first party games to be falling behind most PS3/360 games in this regard.

Really? You decide quality alone on wether there is AA or not being used in a game? How many games on the PS3/360 have issues with tearing?



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

curl-6 on 23 April 2017
Peh said:
curl-6 said:

The weird thing is that Nintendo did use AA on some of their Wii U games, but not others.

Hopefully future Switch titles like ARMS, Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade 2, etc get back into the habit, it's not a good look for their first party games to be falling behind most PS3/360 games in this regard.

Really? You decide quality alone on wether there is AA or not being used in a game?

That's not what I said. I said that in this regard, meaning in terms of AA, they are falling short of the standards of PS3/360.



Peh on 23 April 2017
curl-6 said:
Peh said:

Really? You decide quality alone on wether there is AA or not being used in a game?

That's not what I said. I said that in this regard, meaning in terms of AA, they are falling short of the standards of PS3/360.

Do you have the same standards for PS4 and Xbox One games aswell?



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

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curl-6 on 23 April 2017
Peh said:
curl-6 said:

That's not what I said. I said that in this regard, meaning in terms of AA, they are falling short of the standards of PS3/360.

Do you have the same standards for PS4 and Xbox One games aswell?

The vast majority of PS4/Xbox One games have AA also.



Peh on 23 April 2017
curl-6 said:
Peh said:

Do you have the same standards for PS4 and Xbox One games aswell?

The vast majority of PS4/Xbox One games have AA also.

Do you look down on those games that don't have it for multiple reasons?



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

curl-6 on 23 April 2017
Peh said:
curl-6 said:

The vast majority of PS4/Xbox One games have AA also.

Do you look down on those games that don't have it for multiple reasons?

It's been standard for video games to have anti-aliasing for over a decade now, not having it is a notable graphical shortfall.



Peh on 23 April 2017
curl-6 said:
Peh said:

Do you look down on those games that don't have it for multiple reasons?

It's been standard for video games to have anti-aliasing for over a decade now, not having it is a notable graphical shortfall.

Well, that's great then. Because it's a standard for Nintendo console to not have screen tearing, at all. Something like Sony and Microsoft still fail to accomplish nowadays as a standard for video games.

I take no AA:

http://www.nvidia.de/docs/IO/132426/txaa-updated.png

over screen tearing:

http://media.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2015/gpu/screen-tearing-blacklist.jpg

every day.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

curl-6 on 23 April 2017
Peh said:
curl-6 said:

It's been standard for video games to have anti-aliasing for over a decade now, not having it is a notable graphical shortfall.

Well, that's great then. Because it's a standard for Nintendo console to not have screen tearing, at all. Something like Sony and Microsoft still fail to accomplish nowadays as a standard for video games.

I take no AA:

http://www.nvidia.de/docs/IO/132426/txaa-updated.png

over screen tearing:

http://media.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2015/gpu/screen-tearing-blacklist.jpg

every day.

I hate screen tearing too, with a passion in fact, and I'm glad Nintendo does not tolerate it, but that doesn't change the fact that by foregoing any kind of AA Nintendo is, in this regard, falling behind a standard set by consoles that came out in 2005/2006.