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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundary: Mario Kart 8 Deluxe: Switch vs 3DS/Wii U

Pemalite said:
Peh said:

1. Unless there was no certified interface for adaptive refresh rate during the development of the Switch. Which actually is the case here. HDMI 2.1 was announced in january 2017 and the specifications are still not known but it was said, that they will come in 2nd Q 2017. So, explain to me, how should they implement HDMI 2.1 if that was not available?

1. You don't get it. Freesync being open standard means it can be implemented on non-standard non-AMD interfaces as per Display Port and HDMI.
The Switch's internal Display isn't connected to the rest of the system via a HDMI cable is it?

The Dock however connects to the Switch via USB-C. And can have an updated version at a later date to support something like Freesync and HDMI 2.1 or Display Port 1.2a or newer.
It's actually one of the aspects I like most about the Switch, the potential to upgrade the Dock to support newer standards, improved scalers, potentially include various forms of media like 4k Blu-Ray and more.

Peh said:

3. Yet again, you fail to understand the point here. CRT TV's were the most common TV's during that time. It does not exceed the resolutions determined by PAL, NTSC and SECAM. There is still nothing wrong with my original statement.

2. But CRT TV's did often exceed the resolutions determined by PAL, NTSC and SECAM standards.


Peh said:

4. Context! Does the N64 renders at a higher resolution than the common RCT TV during that time which were PAL, NTSC and SECAM depending on region? No, it does not. My point stands.

3. It often ran at a fraction of the resolution.


Peh said:

5. I don't know what "stiff" means, but by going with the context I assume that you are telling me to fuck off. I don't think that you have the right to tell me where to post and where not to post.  You should work on providing better arguments.


It's Australian slang. It's not telling you to do anything.



1. You miss one important point. Freesync relies on the integrated display controller inside the GPU. It's still partly hardware based. Thus, the GPU being from Nvidia, it misses the essential hardware for using Freesync. It is simply not purely based on software. If this would be the case, AMD would just update all the older GPU's.

Freesync = Hardware / Software
G-Sync = Hardware / Hardware

Yes, the Tegra X1 is not connected to the display via hdmi or any other display. But according to what I just wrote, it's not worth mentioning it anymore. So an adaptive refreshrate inside the Switch will not be possible.

Dock implementation.. I don't know, because just a HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.2a or newer interface will still need the hardware necessary for FreeSync. So, delevoping a controller which takes over this task from the GPU. I don't think Nvidia will comply. But this entire argument is pure speculation.

2. Again, 1994-1996 how many people owned a CRT TV which did a higher resolution then PAL, NTSC and SECAM? How widespread were those. Did Nintendo took those CRT TV's into account?

3. Not denying my statement.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

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Peh said:

1. You miss one important point. Freesync relies on the integrated display controller inside the GPU. It's still partly hardware based. Thus, the GPU being from Nvidia, it misses the essential hardware for using Freesync. It is simply not purely based on software. If this would be the case, AMD would just update all the older GPU's.

Freesync = Hardware / Software
G-Sync = Hardware / Hardware

Yes, the Tegra X1 is not connected to the display via hdmi or any other display. But according to what I just wrote, it's not worth mentioning it anymore. So an adaptive refreshrate inside the Switch will not be possible.

You are missing the point of an open standard and nintendo employing nVidia to customize the SoC.

It was entirely possible before the consoles release. Heck it's still possible with a refresh of the hardware, nothing you have stated changes that fact.

Peh said:

Dock implementation.. I don't know, because just a HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.2a or newer interface will still need the hardware necessary for FreeSync. So, delevoping a controller which takes over this task from the GPU. I don't think Nvidia will comply. But this entire argument is pure speculation.

The Dock can have a seperate/updated chip to handle all that you know.


Peh said:
2. Again, 1994-1996 how many people owned a CRT TV which did a higher resolution then PAL, NTSC and SECAM? How widespread were those. Did Nintendo took those CRT TV's into account?

They don't have to resolve a higher resolution than the 4:3 PAL, NTSC or SECAM standards to exceed the Nintendo 64's capabilities. The Nintendo 64 wasn't meeting those standards for the majority of of it's games.


Peh said:
3. Not denying my statement.

Nor confirming it.
Go look up Australian slang and what it means.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

i have it on Wii U but hardly played it at all.  Will be downloading happily friday morning on my Switch.



Pemalite said:
Peh said:

1. You miss one important point. Freesync relies on the integrated display controller inside the GPU. It's still partly hardware based. Thus, the GPU being from Nvidia, it misses the essential hardware for using Freesync. It is simply not purely based on software. If this would be the case, AMD would just update all the older GPU's.

Freesync = Hardware / Software
G-Sync = Hardware / Hardware

Yes, the Tegra X1 is not connected to the display via hdmi or any other display. But according to what I just wrote, it's not worth mentioning it anymore. So an adaptive refreshrate inside the Switch will not be possible.

1. You are missing the point of an open standard and nintendo employing nVidia to customize the SoC.

 It was entirely possible before the consoles release. Heck it's still possible with a refresh of the hardware, nothing you have stated changes that fact.

Peh said:

Dock implementation.. I don't know, because just a HDMI 2.1 or DP 1.2a or newer interface will still need the hardware necessary for FreeSync. So, delevoping a controller which takes over this task from the GPU. I don't think Nvidia will comply. But this entire argument is pure speculation.

2. The Dock can have a seperate/updated chip to handle all that you know.


Peh said:
2. Again, 1994-1996 how many people owned a CRT TV which did a higher resolution then PAL, NTSC and SECAM? How widespread were those. Did Nintendo took those CRT TV's into account?

3. They don't have to resolve a higher resolution than the 4:3 PAL, NTSC or SECAM standards to exceed the Nintendo 64's capabilities. The Nintendo 64 wasn't meeting those standards for the majority of of it's games.


Peh said:
3. Not denying my statement.

4. Nor confirming it.
Go look up Australian slang and what it means.

1. Why should Nvidia allow a different solution besides their own? You still havn't answered this question. Nintendo has a contract with Nvidia, you know? You have to look at it from a different perspective. Nvidia came up first with the technology for their GPU and still wants to promote it.

For example: Nvidia ditches G-Sync and goes for an open adaptive refresh rate alternative. This would be seen as Nvidia has no confidence in their own solution.

But why stop there. Get a Nvidia graphics card, develop a converter which uses the adaptive refresh rate standard and hook it up to any display that supports it. Again, do you think that Nvidia will let you do it? Remember when people used Nvidia GPU for PhysX rendering and AMD for visual rendering at the same time? The moment Nvidia heard about it, they developed a driver to stop it. And I believe, if Nintendo would developed something on their own for adaptive refreshrate, Nvidia would bitch about it. They just don't like to be fucked. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

2. Not denying this. But also not I was arguing for.

3. Why do you make it so difficult for me. The N64 wasn't made for higher res, because it itself doesn't exceeds the resolution of a standard CRT TV. The image it rendered looked ok on those TV's. On modern TV's it looks like crap. On any higher res TV during that time, it still looked like crap due to higher upscaling. So standard CRT TV's offered  the best picture available during the time. It achieved what the image quality that it should do. A higher resolution (higher than the most common standard) on the N64 would increase the costs even more if they intended to go for way higher resolutions during that time.

4. What?

You can still post your reply, I will read it, but probably, won't bother replying anymore. Got way more important stuff to do.. like playing MK 8 D on my switch :3



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Peh said:

1. Why should Nvidia allow a different solution besides their own? You still havn't answered this question. Nintendo has a contract with Nvidia, you know? You have to look at it from a different perspective. Nvidia came up first with the technology for their GPU and still wants to promote it.

You are just playing with Semantics. It doesn't matter if Nintendo and nVidia push for their own solution. Nor do I particularly care.

The original argument was thus: It would have been trivial for Nintendo to have Adaptive Sync/FreeSync in the Switch to avoid screen tearing and not have to deal with V-Sync double/triple buffering which could add to input lag.

And thus far you haven't been able to provide a definitive argument to counter that.

Peh said:

But why stop there. Get a Nvidia graphics card, develop a converter which uses the adaptive refresh rate standard and hook it up to any display that supports it. Again, do you think that Nvidia will let you do it? Remember when people used Nvidia GPU for PhysX rendering and AMD for visual rendering at the same time? The moment Nvidia heard about it, they developed a driver to stop it. And I believe, if Nintendo would developed something on their own for adaptive refreshrate, Nvidia would bitch about it. They just don't like to be fucked. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

Why do you assume it's even up to nVidia? Nintendo could have opted for a 3rd party solution.


Peh said:

3. Why do you make it so difficult for me. The N64 wasn't made for higher res, because it itself doesn't exceeds the resolution of a standard CRT TV. The image it rendered looked ok on those TV's. On modern TV's it looks like crap. On any higher res TV during that time, it still looked like crap due to higher upscaling. So standard CRT TV's offered  the best picture available during the time. It achieved what the image quality that it should do. A higher resolution (higher than the most common standard) on the N64 would increase the costs even more if they intended to go for way higher resolutions during that time.



Great. So you agree that the Nintendo 64 wasn't built for any specific display standard back then as it fell short of all available standards?


Peh said:

4. What?

You can still post your reply, I will read it, but probably, won't bother replying anymore. Got way more important stuff to do.. like playing MK 8 D on my switch :3

That's fine. We have established that you were wrong in multiple points anyway like:
* Nintendo 64 fell short of PAL/NTSC/SECAM resolution standards.
* Nintendo Consoles can have screen tearing.
* There are benefits to Anti-Aliasing and that there are no excuses why it wasn't added in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe.
* That having no Freesync or similar to be implemented in Switch sucks... But that it's possible to be added in a future console revision.
* Your knowledge of Australian Slang is extremely limited.

Enjoy your day.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--