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Forums - Politics Discussion - Should all beliefs be tolerated?

Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

My point is that unlike what you're insinuating, we'd actually be happier.

lmao. That's not how reality works. It's not possible because there would be no one to grow food or build anything. Everyone would assume they're entitled to everything without having to work for it. A country of apathetic people wouldn't last long.

Why do you assume that nobody would work? It's not humans all of a sudden started working with the introduction of capitalism.



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palou said:

.....

 

So, what do you think?

You are way off based.... If go down this path that mean there is room for everything you believe to be ban and not tolerated. In a world where the vast majority practice one religion they would ban and abolish any other beliefs.  Where do you draw the lines and who is making this call? To ban beliefs and try to control it, is a infrigment of our freedom and rights.

The world is at war against extremist not because of what they belief but rather because of their destructive behavihors and promotion of violence.  

I think that violence, sexism, discrimination, destructive behavihors and lack of tolerance should not be tolerated. 



VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

So, we wouldn't need to worry if people are doing what they actually enjoy instead of making energy and food people need to live their lives?

The problem is not that we don't have enough food or energy. The problem is that we're not using the resources efficiently. Of course there's going to be work, but the current system works in a way that not everyone even can work. There's always unemployed people.

It is irrelevant if we have enough food and energy now, but will we have enough food and energy after everyone does what they actually enjoy, instead of working. And this was your suggestion.

The problems with food we currently have, are not because of efficiency or the lack of it, but because the poor people do not have enough money. 

There will always be unemployed people, but they're not the same people all the time, a spouse may be one that works and social welfare should keep the people from not needing to worry about if they get to eat and live when they're unemployed.

VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

As I already said, it's easy support something when you know it's not going to happen. Yes, the majority would need to oppress the rest into communism. What would make it better than national socialism? The result in the end is the same anyway, everyone's happy and those that aren't, are either dead or oppressed. But the majority is happy. 

No, because Nazism relies on perpetual conflict to exist. It's still based on an economic system with winners and losers, so even when everything's homogenous, there'll be issues.

But so does communism rely on perpetual conflict. This is what people are pointing you out. There's no problem after people accept (and keep accepting) the ideology of communism or national socialism, or any other ideology there is. The rest are either dead or oppressed.



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VGPolyglot said:

No. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and xenophobia should not be tolerated.

By that logic, communism should obviously be in that list too, because estimulate violence among people just like any prejudice.



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yvanjean said:
palou said:

.....

 

So, what do you think?

You are way off based.... If go down this path that mean there is room for everything you believe to be ban and not tolerated. In a world where the vast majority practice one religion they would ban and abolish any other beliefs.  Where do you draw the lines and who is making this call? To ban beliefs and try to control it, is a infrigment of our freedom and rights.

The world is at war against extremist not because of what they belief but rather because of their destructive behavihors and promotion of violence.  

I think that violence, sexism, discrimination, destructive behavihors and lack of tolerance should not be tolerated. 

I thought that the outline that I tried to establish was fairly evident; any belief can either follow the rules or not, I don't see the ambiguity.

 

It also seems fairly impartial, in that the rules established simply outline the properties a belief needs to have to avoid harm to society without analyzing the validity of the belief.



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Salnax said:
I feel that all people should be respected, and all beliefs should be tolerated (though not necessarily respected), but that there should be no special protection of actions based on beliefs. Yes, there are foul beliefs that benefit nobody, but the people holding these beliefs should be respected enough to contain them. People always deserve the right to have their own stupid ideas, especially when they have little to no impact on others.

Should they however be aloud to spread the belief? That is how I would define not "tolerating" a belief. It does not mean to attack people, simply an attempt to kill off the belief itself, in the long run.



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ArnoldRimmer said:
palou said:

What I propose is a disctinction of beliefs that cannot be tolerated

1. One must not sell superiority, through faith or any arbitrary quality among believers (see: caste system.). It must not give the right to judge others because of their beliefs, or instigate excessive fear of the lack of belief, attacking the irrational.

2. One must not oppose the fundamental rights of any human, can not take away their right to free speech, and more importantly, free thought.

3. One must not promise you rights which are not yours according to law.

4. One must be open to debate, questioning. It cannot sell itself as infallible, and must allow, or even encourage the exploration of other ideas, particularly amongst youths. 

If a philosophy/religion/sytem of beliefs fails to fulfill any of the above, I believe it must be adjusted accordingly, and only then tolerated by society.

This would all be to reduce adversity and prevent infectious thoughts that attack our irrationality.

So, what do you think?

I think that this seems like a kind of "manifest of intolerance", written by someone who probably believes himself to be very tolerant.

The original manifest of tolerance (a letter concerning tolerance by John Locke) put the limit of the concept of tolerance to ideas that do not disrupt society. I attempted to make a list of general properties that a belief must fullfill to comply to that condition.



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VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

lmao. That's not how reality works. It's not possible because there would be no one to grow food or build anything. Everyone would assume they're entitled to everything without having to work for it. A country of apathetic people wouldn't last long.

Why do you assume that nobody would work? It's not humans all of a sudden started working with the introduction of capitalism.

Because with true socialism or communism, apathy is rewarded by free stuff while working is punished by the government stealing what you worked for. What is the incentive to work or work harder if you taxed more for it while people who do nothing get your stuff?

Capitalism only further incentivises what people do naturally (provide for oneself and family) and it allows many paths for people to improve their life by rewarding their effort. You want to become rich, you can by being smart with your money, life choices and what you do as a living. If you're apathetic or dumb, you'll stay poor. It's fair to everyone because you reap exactly you sow good or bad. If someone is disabled to a certain point or truly unable to work, they're taken care of.



VGPolyglot said:
palou said:

That would be the first criteria I stated - those all sell superiority above others.

OK. I was mainly talking about what I think, instead of commentating on your proposal. #2 refers to free speech, and some people think that what I mentioned falls under that category, so I had to clarify that. Of course, when talking about #3, the question is who is going to decide the laws? Are we talking about existing laws, or completely starting over?

Then you're wanting a goalpost game where you decide what speech falls into those categories and then banning it. To those people, they may see what they're saying or believing into one of those categories.



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