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Forums - Politics Discussion - Should all beliefs be tolerated?

VGPolyglot said:
Puppyroach said:

So you mean to forbid a person to, for example, say that he/she is a nazi (but the person can still think it)? So basically a totalitarian society that acts as if, as lo g as people don't say what they think, everything is fine? That is how you breed ignorance in every society. The best thing is if people express their opinion, no matter how we think of them, and then we get a chance to oppose them. That way we practice critical thinking and rationality. Forbidding opinion is how Christianity for hundreds of years kept the rational discussion out of society...

What I'm saying that if doesn't say that he's a Nazi, we can't do anything about because we wouldn't know that he's a Nazi. It'd be fine and dandy if we could let Nazis say their views and just get on with our day with nothing happening, but as we saw with World War II, letting Nazis grow and fester doesn't turn out well.

And that sounds like a strange sort of democratic totalitarian state, where the government even control what people are allowed to express in terms of ideology. Right-wing extremism doesn't grow because they express their views, they grow because of economic inequality, unemployment, lesser quality education and opportunism. You won't combat those with promoting a model where the government even govern people's opinions.



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bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

What do you mean begins with oppression? Of course it begins with oppression, the whole ideology of communism is that oppression exists, and it needs to be eliminated. If there was no oppression, we wouldn't need communism.

It begins with oppressing the people to the ideology, because people are not willing to accept it. You're using the end to justify the means, and it is no different from any other ideology that's forcing people to do what they don't want to, because in the end there's peace anyway, as non-willing people are either oppressed or dead. Why would communism be any better than national socialism? In the end everyone's happy anyway, it's only the road to the end that's painful.

Maybe people are not willing to accept it now, but I'm not expecting it to happen now. It'll only work when/if a majority is supportive of the transition to socialism/communism.



Puppyroach said:
VGPolyglot said:

What I'm saying that if doesn't say that he's a Nazi, we can't do anything about because we wouldn't know that he's a Nazi. It'd be fine and dandy if we could let Nazis say their views and just get on with our day with nothing happening, but as we saw with World War II, letting Nazis grow and fester doesn't turn out well.

And that sounds like a strange sort of democratic totalitarian state, where the government even control what people are allowed to express in terms of ideology. Right-wing extremism doesn't grow because they express their views, they grow because of economic inequality, unemployment, lesser quality education and opportunism. You won't combat those with promoting a model where the government even govern people's opinions.

I know that. I support the elimination of income inequality and the government. However, we also need to make sure that people in poverty and need are not swayed by fascism.



VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

Trying to change the subject?

My point was that apathy is already alive and well in the current society. Besides, when we don't have to worry about when our next paycheck is coming, or whether or not we can afford to pay the bills, we can use that energy to think of things that we actually enjoy.

So, we wouldn't need to worry if people are doing what they actually enjoy instead of making energy and food people need to live their lives?



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

My point was that apathy is already alive and well in the current society. Besides, when we don't have to worry about when our next paycheck is coming, or whether or not we can afford to pay the bills, we can use that energy to think of things that we actually enjoy.

So, we wouldn't need to worry if people are doing what they actually enjoy instead of making energy and food people need to live their lives?

The problem is not that we don't have enough food or energy. The problem is that we're not using the resources efficiently. Of course there's going to be work, but the current system works in a way that not everyone even can work. There's always unemployed people.



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VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

Trying to change the subject?

(1) My point was that apathy is already alive and well in the current society. (2) Besides, when we don't have to worry about when our next paycheck is coming, or whether or not we can afford to pay the bills, we can use that energy to think of things that we actually enjoy.

(1) Apathy in society is like "people being hungry" in the sense that it can't be cured completely. It can only be lessened. 

(2) What is your point with this part?



VGPolyglot said:
bdbdbd said:

It begins with oppressing the people to the ideology, because people are not willing to accept it. You're using the end to justify the means, and it is no different from any other ideology that's forcing people to do what they don't want to, because in the end there's peace anyway, as non-willing people are either oppressed or dead. Why would communism be any better than national socialism? In the end everyone's happy anyway, it's only the road to the end that's painful.

Maybe people are not willing to accept it now, but I'm not expecting it to happen now. It'll only work when/if a majority is supportive of the transition to socialism/communism.

As I already said, it's easy support something when you know it's not going to happen. Yes, the majority would need to oppress the rest into communism. What would make it better than national socialism? The result in the end is the same anyway, everyone's happy and those that aren't, are either dead or oppressed. But the majority is happy. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

(1) My point was that apathy is already alive and well in the current society. (2) Besides, when we don't have to worry about when our next paycheck is coming, or whether or not we can afford to pay the bills, we can use that energy to think of things that we actually enjoy.

(1) Apathy in society is like "people being hungry" in the sense that it can't be cured completely. It can only be lessened. 

(2) What is your point with this part?

My point is that unlike what you're insinuating, we'd actually be happier.



bdbdbd said:
VGPolyglot said:

Maybe people are not willing to accept it now, but I'm not expecting it to happen now. It'll only work when/if a majority is supportive of the transition to socialism/communism.

As I already said, it's easy support something when you know it's not going to happen. Yes, the majority would need to oppress the rest into communism. What would make it better than national socialism? The result in the end is the same anyway, everyone's happy and those that aren't, are either dead or oppressed. But the majority is happy. 

No, because Nazism relies on perpetual conflict to exist. It's still based on an economic system with winners and losers, so even when everything's homogenous, there'll be issues.



VGPolyglot said:
Aeolus451 said:

(1) Apathy in society is like "people being hungry" in the sense that it can't be cured completely. It can only be lessened. 

(2) What is your point with this part?

My point is that unlike what you're insinuating, we'd actually be happier.

lmao. That's not how reality works. It's not possible because there would be no one to grow food or build anything. Everyone would assume they're entitled to everything without having to work for it. A country of apathetic people wouldn't last long.