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Forums - Politics Discussion - Students beat classmate to death screaming Allahu Akbar (New graphic video)

ASStronaut said:
Eagle367 said:

This was utterly disgusting and the reality is that the poor guy never talked I'll of the Prophet(pbuh). The blasphemy situation in Pakistan is really bad and the mob violence is even worse. The blasphemy law itself is shaky at best. Anyone who has a grudge on someone else can claim that the guut or girl blasphemed, gather a large crowd and do inhumane utterly disgusting stuff like burning bodies and beating dead bodies etc. The problem is very severe especially in Punjab and Sindh. A guy was murdered by his security gaurd for questioning the controversial blasphemy law that's how bad it is and a percentage of population cheered for him. Sadly this is the result of brain washing unlike any other. When the Prophet(pbuh) himself entered victoriously in Makkah there was an almost bloodless victory. The people of Makkah were the worst any blasphemer can get since they used to throw trash, filth and thorns at him, hurl abuses at him and when his uncle died, they devised a plan to murder him. So if the Prophet(pbuh) himself was so tolerant, it makes me really sad to see the people who murder others just for speculation of blasphemy. Sadly the best thing that we can do is wait and hope the brain washed masses learn better. Its not like the entirety of Pakistan is that way. Everyone I know was disgusted at this and I hope the majority were but the truth is that I don't know.

Nice taqiyya there.

yeah not really. Go check out the true history of the Prophet(PBUH) from a credible source not online bloggers who are the equivalent of alex jones or steve bannon.



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Eagle367 said:
ASStronaut said:

Nice taqiyya there.

yeah not really. Go check out the true history of the Prophet(PBUH) from a credible source not online bloggers who are the equivalent of alex jones or steve bannon.

No.



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ASStronaut said:
Eagle367 said:

yeah not really. Go check out the true history of the Prophet(PBUH) from a credible source not online bloggers who are the equivalent of alex jones or steve bannon.

No.

alright then keep believing the lies you tell yourself and live in a fantasy where facts don't matter and you can say anything you want and believe its true. Bye bye hope for the betterment of humanity



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Eagle367 said:
ASStronaut said:

No.

alright then keep believing the lies you tell yourself and live in a fantasy where facts don't matter and you can say anything you want and believe its true. Bye bye hope for the betterment of humanity

alright then keep believing the lies you tell yourself and live in a fantasy where facts don't matter and you can say anything you want and believe its true.



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Eagle367 said:
ASStronaut said:

Nice taqiyya there.

yeah not really. Go check out the true history of the Prophet(PBUH) from a credible source not online bloggers who are the equivalent of alex jones or steve bannon.

So you mean to check out sources that paint that prophet in a positive light?



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A_C_E said:
JWeinCom said:

I don't think religion is beyond question just because people are psychopathic enough to kill someone for having a different view to them. We're talking about cold blooded murderers.

By beyond question I mean that society doesn't allow you to question it.  Obviously, if you can get killed for it, it is treated as beyond question.  Thankfully, most places aren't that bad, but even in more secular nations, there is an idea that we should not question people's religious beliefs.  

Due to Wall Street the corporate cover-ups are astonishing, political scandals are very widespread in every country. The amount of allegations that jump out of every news outlet about politics is immeasurable. Religion, corporations, politicians, they can get away with it all. But this raping of children is an institutional problem, not a religious problem. These people aren't raping the kids because they are religious, it would be a fallacy to claim so.

If it is a religious institution, then it is also a religious problem.  You can't ignore the fact that the ideas, aka religion, are enabling these behaviors, and enabling them to get away with it.  And while we often turn a blind eye to political scandals, I don't think any known pedophile would be allowed to go on unscathed.  

Right. Except it's not a fact, it's a belief, and judging by how many homosexual Christians there are in America kinda brings me back to my point that people are lazy Christians or lazy Muslims who can calculate for themselves in a non-proprietary manner that listening to a book in a literal sense isn't the right step to take. That's their decision.

Suppose we completely eliminated the idea that homosexuality is a sin against god.  We could somehow magically obliterate that thought completely.  Would that be a positive or a negative for society?

This is a good point but your point here would seem to pertain only to violent people who could be triggered into a violent act. I mean, 7 billion people in this world and we have a growing population. We've done ok with religion. With 7 billion people comes room for violent engagement whatever the excuse, whether it be religion, sports or dental work.

Sure.  And we should do what we can to minimize violent engagement as much as possible.  

I will say though that I do agree we would probably be better off if religion just sort of went away over time and people got more into sciences and logic and put there money into research as opposed to false prophets and the like.

I'm a little bit confused then... You seem to be indicating that the problems with religion are the results of the institution/individual and not the result of the ideas themselves, but then you're also saying that we would be better off without religion.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but those seem to be conflicting ideas.

If it is a religious institution, then it is also a religious problem.  You can't ignore the fact that the ideas, aka religion, are enabling these behaviors, and enabling them to get away with it.  And while we often turn a blind eye to political scandals, I don't think any known pedophile would be allowed to go on unscathed.  

I have to disagree because without the institutional structure you have much less power for cover-ups. I'm not saying that 100% of religious people who commited crimes would be caught, but breaking up the institution would bring these crimes down the same levels as the current standard of society. There are too many examples that both of us could go through to show that religious people can do both bad and good which leads to the religion being inherently neutral.

Suppose we completely eliminated the idea that homosexuality is a sin against god.  We could somehow magically obliterate that thought completely.  Would that be a positive or a negative for society?

I know where you are coming from. You're basically saying if we erased religion then homosexuals would be less hated against. I see your point and I agree that religion plays a role here in offering bias against certain individuals, but we are talking about human beings that are bias in the first place. What I mean to say has already been said and that is religion is a catalyst to already existing societal problems. It's not so much religion that is the problem but the education, or lack there of, that needs to change. To answer your question, it would be a positive for sure but with proper education we could deter those kinds of thoughts from society.

I'm a little bit confused then... You seem to be indicating that the problems with religion are the results of the institution/individual and not the result of the ideas themselves, but then you're also saying that we would be better off without religion.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but those seem to be conflicting ideas.

My point all along has been that religion is not the root problem. Religion can be a catalyst for anything but it cannot be inherently bad or good. People are the root of evil so the more that people are educated from all sides, as opposed to just what they want to hear, the more people can assess reality for all its calculated glory.

I think to argue the catalyst vs the root cause is a chicken and egg situation.  People influence ideas, and those ideas influence people.  Whether it's the cause or the catalyst seems to be a pointless distinction.  The question for me is whether it is beneficial or harmful to the world.

I disagree on religion not being inherently good or bad.  I would say that any religion that encourages any particular dogma is inherently bad.  I would say that dogma is the root of most large scale societal problems, and religion is one of the main sources of that.  Even if the religion was founded on generally good ideas (which I don't believe any religion I'm familiar with is) if it involves dogmatic beliefs, it's probably going to lead to bad results.



Anyone putting all religions in one basket and on par is incredibly ignorant. It's undeniable that islam is different from other religions and can't be compared to them, since it's a savage and merciless war doctrine and a totalitarian political system merely disguised as a religion. Most of the scriptures aren't even centered around religion, but on politics. It deserves to be treated just like communism or natzism - and I hope the West is starting to realize that.
Being a member of any religion alone (or origin from a culture shaped by a given religion) won't make any person automatically good or bad, that's why examples of good people considered Muslims or bad people considered Christians are pointless. The crucial difference is that islam justifies, inspires or even orders violence (like in the case that started this topic) - and that's what separates it from other religions. When Christians (or believers of most other religions) commit violent acts, they do so against their religion, their acts aren't justified or encouraged whatsoever by their religion. On the other hand, Muslims commit violent acts due to or being inspired by their violent religion. It's the prejudiced and filled with hatred attitude towards non-Muslims (basically religious racism - non-Muslims are to be treated worse than Muslims) that makes this religion unacceptable in any way, shape or form.


From a religious point of view - there is no doubt in my mind that islam is the church of satan, after all allah is nothing more but a pagan Bedouin deity, thus an emanation of satan. The texts themselves are a twisted, wicked and corrupted version of the Holy Scripture and everything that muhammad had brought new is evil and inhuman. New Testament's love has been replaced with hatred and violence, free will with slavery to allah's will. On one hand there is God who loves me, on the other a deity that consideres people its slaves.

It's an unbelievable step-back from Christianity in all aspects.



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JWeinCom said:

I think to argue the catalyst vs the root cause is a chicken and egg situation.  People influence ideas, and those ideas influence people.  Whether it's the cause or the catalyst seems to be a pointless distinction.  The question for me is whether it is beneficial or harmful to the world.

I disagree on religion not being inherently good or bad.  I would say that any religion that encourages any particular dogma is inherently bad.  I would say that dogma is the root of most large scale societal problems, and religion is one of the main sources of that.  Even if the religion was founded on generally good ideas (which I don't believe any religion I'm familiar with is) if it involves dogmatic beliefs, it's probably going to lead to bad results.

The chicken and egg situation is a situation that we don't understand, we don't know which came first. This is different. People don't influence ideas, people create ideas which can influence other people. You say it's a pointless distinction between the cause and catalyst but I completely disagree. People are the very source of all ideas. Our brains are the devices in which we use to interpret what and how we can use as a catalyst with good or bad intentions. Our brains are the root of it all, of course it's not a pointless distinction.

Let's say I have a pen and paper. On that paper I write, "I am God. Kill all who don't believe". Now let's assume people read this and some people take it seriously and others not. If people took this seriously and began killing others then who is to blame, the paper or the people? The paper is just words after all, words can't create institutions, only our brains can. We are the source and cause of bad nature.

I'm not saying religion is or isn't inherently bad, I'm saying it can't be inherently bad and I'm saying that by definition. It literally cannot be inherently bad. You literally need a human being to take it in a bad direction or a good direction and without a human being it is neutral, nothing but ink. Bad results come from bad people.



A_C_E said:
JWeinCom said:

I think to argue the catalyst vs the root cause is a chicken and egg situation.  People influence ideas, and those ideas influence people.  Whether it's the cause or the catalyst seems to be a pointless distinction.  The question for me is whether it is beneficial or harmful to the world.

I disagree on religion not being inherently good or bad.  I would say that any religion that encourages any particular dogma is inherently bad.  I would say that dogma is the root of most large scale societal problems, and religion is one of the main sources of that.  Even if the religion was founded on generally good ideas (which I don't believe any religion I'm familiar with is) if it involves dogmatic beliefs, it's probably going to lead to bad results.

The chicken and egg situation is a situation that we don't understand, we don't know which came first. This is different. People don't influence ideas, people create ideas which can influence other people. You say it's a pointless distinction between the cause and catalyst but I completely disagree. People are the very source of all ideas. Our brains are the devices in which we use to interpret what and how we can use as a catalyst with good or bad intentions. Our brains are the root of it all, of course it's not a pointless distinction.

Let's say I have a pen and paper. On that paper I write, "I am God. Kill all who don't believe". Now let's assume people read this and some people take it seriously and others not. If people took this seriously and began killing others then who is to blame, the paper or the people? The paper is just words after all, words can't create institutions, only our brains can. We are the source and cause of bad nature.

I'm not saying religion is or isn't inherently bad, I'm saying it can't be inherently bad and I'm saying that by definition. It literally cannot be inherently bad. You literally need a human being to take it in a bad direction or a good direction and without a human being it is neutral, nothing but ink. Bad results come from bad people.

We'll assume for a moment I agree with that.  Why is that distinction useful? How does it change how we should act or deal with religion?



This is why God created the hydrogen bomb, like cockroaches these zealots need to be eradicated