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Xbox Scorpio's Hype Justified by it's Hardware specs

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potato_hamster said:
Just like the PS4 Pro, it doesn't need to exist, it's not going to sell well, and it's not going to make any significant impact in the video game industry.

I think you're looking it as a short term strategy. It's clear that console gens won't take 5 years anymore. A bunch of games takes 5 years to be developed, gens must become longer to accomodate this development cycle. Reducing the need to adapt to new platforms is also a plus that cuts development costs down. I know we all want the latest and greatest, but we unfortunately have to hold things a bit so studios can actually make money instead of going bankrupt.

While the last gen went for 7 years, it sufffered a lot in the final 2 because the hardware was too outdated. And those were consoles that were pretty powerful when launched. PS4 and X1 never were so powerful and that's reasonable because PS360 needed billions of dollars of losses until they became profitable. They were powerful so they could last but it didn't worked.

The new strategy is to launch moderately powerful units and release a more powerful unit mid-gen. When the gen is close to its end, the more powerful unit will be way cheaper. Maybe even the base model will already be discontinued. Late adopters will buy those. So the problem of extremely dated hardware will be gone, since the new units won't be  significantly more dated in 2020 that the base models are now. As for early adopters with the base model, they will jump to the PS5/Xnextgen quick, so nobody will be that outdated anymore. 

Imagine how some early current gen ports to PS360 like MGS5, Shadow of Mordor, CoD and BF4 could be way better if we had Pro versions in 2010. They are just trying to make longer gens viable to allow them (and developers) to profit instead of dying off or having to rip us off even more with DLC and microtransactions.



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torok said:
potato_hamster said:
Just like the PS4 Pro, it doesn't need to exist, it's not going to sell well, and it's not going to make any significant impact in the video game industry.

I think you're looking it as a short term strategy. It's clear that console gens won't take 5 years anymore. A bunch of games takes 5 years to be developed, gens must become longer to accomodate this development cycle. Reducing the need to adapt to new platforms is also a plus that cuts development costs down. I know we all want the latest and greatest, but we unfortunately have to hold things a bit so studios can actually make money instead of going bankrupt.

While the last gen went for 7 years, it sufffered a lot in the final 2 because the hardware was too outdated. And those were consoles that were pretty powerful when launched. PS4 and X1 never were so powerful and that's reasonable because PS360 needed billions of dollars of losses until they became profitable. They were powerful so they could last but it didn't worked.

The new strategy is to launch moderately powerful units and release a more powerful unit mid-gen. When the gen is close to its end, the more powerful unit will be way cheaper. Maybe even the base model will already be discontinued. Late adopters will buy those. So the problem of extremely dated hardware will be gone, since the new units won't be  significantly more dated in 2020 that the base models are now. As for early adopters with the base model, they will jump to the PS5/Xnextgen quick, so nobody will be that outdated anymore. 

Imagine how some early current gen ports to PS360 like MGS5, Shadow of Mordor, CoD and BF4 could be way better if we had Pro versions in 2010. They are just trying to make longer gens viable to allow them (and developers) to profit instead of dying off or having to rip us off even more with DLC and microtransactions.

As long as the base PS4 and X1 have to be supported, then your argument falls flat on its face. Those games you listed that "could be way better" would be exacrtly the same, since developers would still have to support the base Xbox 360 and base PS3. Sony and MS are going to mandate that these consoles be supported as part of the platform, since the vast majority of the platform users will be using that base specification, and it would be horrifically bad PR to let those users get the feeling that they're being abandoned.. Remember the vast majority of a hardware's sales tend to come after it's first three years on the market, because that's when consoles tend to meet a price threshold that tends to bring a higher volume of sales. New, higher spec'd more expensive consoles isn't going to change that in the slightest. If given the choice, most people are going to want the cheapest console, not the most powerful one, especially if they both play the same games.

Let's just take a look at what the PS4 Pro has done since it's announcement. Nothing has really changed for the vast majority of PS4 owners (over 90%) except now,  development costs for the people making the games has risen since engines have to be revised to accomodate these new specifications, and specification specific optimizations and modes need to be made. What we don't see is tens of millions of PS4 users upgrading their consoles to PS4 Pros, and we also don't see the vast majority of new console buyers opting for the PS4 Pro over the PS4. The PS4 Pro is a very niche product for a very small minority of the userbase, and there's no reason to think Scorpio will be any different.

5-6-7 year long development times for games isn't exactly a new phenomena (Hello Duke Nukem Forever, and Aliens: Colonial Marines), so i don't see why the industry needs to change to accomodate that. If anything, the industry has tried to stream line the submission and certification process, switched to familiar hardware architectures, and dramatically improved developer tools to ensure that great games can be made and released quicker, cheaper and easier than ever before. The push is for shorter development times, not longer ones. I don't think this "generation" is going to last any longer because of the existance of the PS4 Pro and Scoprio. The PS5 will come when PS4 sales start to trail off and developers start complaining about how the base PS4 and X1 are impeding their development. I think the PS4 Pro was an experient by Sony to see how the market reacts to such a console, but based on the results, I don't see any reason why its existance would change the schedule for the PS5.

P.S. I say this as a PS4 Pro owner, who doesn't have a 4K TV and has no interest in getting one in the next 4-5 years. The only reason I had one is because my launch PS4 was starting to act a bit flaky, and gamestop had a hell of a trade in deal for the PS4 Pro at the time.



While the specs are great and it will be an amazing piece of hardware. I have to ask was there hype for the Scorpio like that? I mean I have not seen a lot of hype for it really. So if there hasn't really been hype for it how can the hype be justified? None the less it will be great for the XB eco system if priced correctly! And will give XB gamers yet another choice which is always a good thing.

Personally I am happy with my Gears 4 special edition and see no reason to upgrade for now. I may pick up a Pro and a Scorpio in like 2 years when they drop in price.



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TheBlackNaruto said:
While the specs are great and it will be an amazing piece of hardware. I have to ask was there hype for the Scorpio like that? I mean I have not seen a lot of hype for it really. So if there hasn't really been hype for it how can the hype be justified? None the less it will be great for the XB eco system if priced correctly! And will give XB gamers yet another choice which is always a good thing.

Personally I am happy with my Gears 4 special edition and see no reason to upgrade for now. I may pick up a Pro and a Scorpio in like 2 years when they drop in price.

The only hype I saw was stuff like

" games like RDR2, SWBF 2, the new Battlefield, the next CoD, Destiny 2, etc.  I'm excited to be able to play these games at a NATIVE 4K without any compromises in resolution or quality on a console.  "

IE the ability to do 4K 60FPS on "EVERY multiplat console game".

But even then I only saw stuff like that from a few people.



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Bandorr said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
While the specs are great and it will be an amazing piece of hardware. I have to ask was there hype for the Scorpio like that? I mean I have not seen a lot of hype for it really. So if there hasn't really been hype for it how can the hype be justified? None the less it will be great for the XB eco system if priced correctly! And will give XB gamers yet another choice which is always a good thing.

Personally I am happy with my Gears 4 special edition and see no reason to upgrade for now. I may pick up a Pro and a Scorpio in like 2 years when they drop in price.

The only hype I saw was stuff like

" games like RDR2, SWBF 2, the new Battlefield, the next CoD, Destiny 2, etc.  I'm excited to be able to play these games at a NATIVE 4K without any compromises in resolution or quality on a console.  "

IE the ability to do 4K 60FPS on "EVERY multiplat console game".

But even then I only saw stuff like that from a few people.

Well that guy as we all know was making a mockery of all users on the site so I didn't take him or anything he said serious. But I wasn't trying to be funny or start anything I was just curious because I really didn't see any hype for the Scorpio. Just people discussing what the specs would be. That's why I asked how ws the hype justified if there really wasn't any or a lot of hype for it. Again it will be a BEAST of a machine and will be awesome for XB gamers.

But I hope the Scorpio lives up to the expectations of those who plan on getting it and that is has an attractive price for consumers.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

potato_hamster said:

As long as the base PS4 and X1 have to be supported, then your argument falls flat on its face. Those games you listed that "could be way better" would be exacrtly the same, since developers would still have to support the base Xbox 360 and base PS3. Sony and MS are going to mandate that these consoles be supported as part of the platform, since the vast majority of the platform users will be using that base specification, and it would be horrifically bad PR to let those users get the feeling that they're being abandoned.. Remember the vast majority of a hardware's sales tend to come after it's first three years on the market, because that's when consoles tend to meet a price threshold that tends to bring a higher volume of sales. New, higher spec'd more expensive consoles isn't going to change that in the slightest. If given the choice, most people are going to want the cheapest console, not the most powerful one, especially if they both play the same games.

Let's just take a look at what the PS4 Pro has done since it's announcement. Nothing has really changed for the vast majority of PS4 owners (over 90%) except now,  development costs for the people making the games has risen since engines have to be revised to accomodate these new specifications, and specification specific optimizations and modes need to be made. What we don't see is tens of millions of PS4 users upgrading their consoles to PS4 Pros, and we also don't see the vast majority of new console buyers opting for the PS4 Pro over the PS4. The PS4 Pro is a very niche product for a very small minority of the userbase, and there's no reason to think Scorpio will be any different.

5-6-7 year long development times for games isn't exactly a new phenomena (Hello Duke Nukem Forever, and Aliens: Colonial Marines), so i don't see why the industry needs to change to accomodate that. If anything, the industry has tried to stream line the submission and certification process, switched to familiar hardware architectures, and dramatically improved developer tools to ensure that great games can be made and released quicker, cheaper and easier than ever before. The push is for shorter development times, not longer ones. I don't think this "generation" is going to last any longer because of the existance of the PS4 Pro and Scoprio. The PS5 will come when PS4 sales start to trail off and developers start complaining about how the base PS4 and X1 are impeding their development. I think the PS4 Pro was an experient by Sony to see how the market reacts to such a console, but based on the results, I don't see any reason why its existance would change the schedule for the PS5.

P.S. I say this as a PS4 Pro owner, who doesn't have a 4K TV and has no interest in getting one in the next 4-5 years. The only reason I had one is because my launch PS4 was starting to act a bit flaky, and gamestop had a hell of a trade in deal for the PS4 Pro at the time.

I know they would have to support the base model. But mind that, when the PS3 arrived, most consoles in the wild were Slim or Super Slim units. Most OG PS3 were already gone. So we can assume that, maybe, most PS4s will be Pros. The question is not the devs, it's the experience people get. Shadow of Mordor on PS3 was a sub-HD game running at 20 fps. So people wouldn't play it because it was plain terrible. Let's imagine that a PS3 Pro did existed. Maybe that game would be 720p and a stable 30 fps, so people would still want to play it. The Slim PS4 will be the top seller for a lot of time, but towards the end of the gen, the Pro will overtake it. Same with Scorpio. In 2012-13, PS360 sales suffered. Game sales in 2013 were terrible, with a lot of good franchies flopping badly. The Pro and Scorpio are here just to avoid that these 2 extra years result in a dying market.

You are looking at it thinking about the present. Take a PS4 game on a OG model and it isn't that much worse than the same game on PC running on ultra. You can see, the difference, but it's not ridiculous. I'm talking about 2019. Just remember how bad PS3 was hanging on in 2012 and that's the point of having a beefier unit.

You're trying to justify that long cycles aren't new using 2 games that had severe issues with their development. PS2 games could be made by teams of 20 devs in 2 years. Indie games nowadays use more than that. I'm not saying PS4 Pro and Scorpio will make the gen longer, but it was clear with PS360 that 7 years made the studios suffer because people were buying less games. Sony and MS seems to believe that a better hardware may offset this software crysis. So the point isn't really to make the gen longer, but to make the new duration viable.

Of course, when sales go down, they will launch a new gen. But this is related to what the market wants, not what devs wants. The guys who decide who gets the games are wearing suits and don't even know how to use a printer. Devs will code to the platform their bosses tells the to do so. They supported the Wii when it was selling well even if it was last-gen hardware.

If the Pro and Scorpio really don't have any impact even when looking at the last 2 years, then I will agree with you that it was a failed experiment. It's indeed a possibility, specially if the regular models manage to sell for sub-150 prices or maybe even 100 bucks. 

Off-topic: You said your PS4 was having issues. Could it be an error CE-34878-0 with some games? Mine has those frequently with UC4 and Horizon, so I was starting to think about getting a Pro and trade my current unit.



TheBlackNaruto said:
Bandorr said:

The only hype I saw was stuff like

" games like RDR2, SWBF 2, the new Battlefield, the next CoD, Destiny 2, etc.  I'm excited to be able to play these games at a NATIVE 4K without any compromises in resolution or quality on a console.  "

IE the ability to do 4K 60FPS on "EVERY multiplat console game".

But even then I only saw stuff like that from a few people.

Well that guy as we all know was making a mockery of all users on the site so I didn't take him or anything he said serious. But I wasn't trying to be funny or start anything I was just curious because I really didn't see any hype for the Scorpio. Just people discussing what the specs would be. That's why I asked how ws the hype justified if there really wasn't any or a lot of hype for it. Again it will be a BEAST of a machine and will be awesome for XB gamers.

But I hope the Scorpio lives up to the expectations of those who plan on getting it and that is has an attractive price for consumers.

I'm not joking anything. That really is the only kind of hype I saw. The few people here and on neogaf thinking that it will be 4k 60 FPS on every game. And that think because it is suddenly more powerful that Microsoft will now dominate the console market.

I didn't see any hype beyond that really.

Although I did see a lot of discussion about price. I wonder if that counts as hype. "This video card" or "that video card" etc.

Actually the price is the only thing that has interested me. High or low. Customer friendly or Premium console.



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Bandorr said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Well that guy as we all know was making a mockery of all users on the site so I didn't take him or anything he said serious. But I wasn't trying to be funny or start anything I was just curious because I really didn't see any hype for the Scorpio. Just people discussing what the specs would be. That's why I asked how ws the hype justified if there really wasn't any or a lot of hype for it. Again it will be a BEAST of a machine and will be awesome for XB gamers.

But I hope the Scorpio lives up to the expectations of those who plan on getting it and that is has an attractive price for consumers.

I'm not joking anything. That really is the only kind of hype I saw. The few people here and on neogaf thinking that it will be 4k 60 FPS on every game. And that think because it is suddenly more powerful that Microsoft will now dominate the console market.

I didn't see any hype beyond that really.

Although I did see a lot of discussion about price. I wonder if that counts as hype. "This video card" or "that video card" etc.

Actually the price is the only thing that has interested me. High or low. Customer friendly or Premium console.

The price is what has me most intrested as well!



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

TheBlackNaruto said:
Bandorr said:

I'm not joking anything. That really is the only kind of hype I saw. The few people here and on neogaf thinking that it will be 4k 60 FPS on every game. And that think because it is suddenly more powerful that Microsoft will now dominate the console market.

I didn't see any hype beyond that really.

Although I did see a lot of discussion about price. I wonder if that counts as hype. "This video card" or "that video card" etc.

Actually the price is the only thing that has interested me. High or low. Customer friendly or Premium console.

The price is what has me most intrested as well!

So what do you think it will come in under? I think the poll in the  other thread is interesting.

highest number of people (at 161) think $500. The next highest thing it is $600.

I personally went $450.



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