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How the heck did Sony manage to retake the console market again?

Forums - Gaming Discussion - How the heck did Sony manage to retake the console market again?

S.T.A.G.E. said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

That's exactly what I and Yoshida said. In Japan, Blops 3 is a 2nd party game. What Yoshida is telling you is that deals where they publish the game, regardless of whether they own the IP or if they commissioned the game, is a 2nd party deal. Which would make Sunset a 2nd party game, as MS not only published, but also funded :)

To say anything otherwise would be saying you know more about these deals than someone who actually makes them. It seems so much easier to just admit you're wrong on what a 2nd party game is. I mean, is it really that big a deal that Insomniac is a 2nd party partner with MS this gen? I'm having a hard time understanding why you have your head so deep in the sand over this.

actually I was differentiating between a second party publisher and developer (who make things exclusively for a platform for the ip holder). I was referring to a second party developer. The deal with cod is different Much like how Sony wouldn't pay for demon souls Outside of Japan Altus and namco had to step to publish over here as well as in other places

Third party control their intellectual property. Microsoft don't have as many rights as insomniac to sunset overdrive outside of exclusivity

To be honest I expected some better spin than this. No, you weren't differentiating anything. You didn't bring up any different between publisher and developer at all until I provided you actual evidence from someone who actually works in the industry that the type of deal you're describing is in fact second party. Trying to now say there is a difference between publishing and developing is just feeble shifting of goal posts. Here, let me help you with a gif.

This is what you're doing:



This is what you need to be doing:

No offense intended but jeebus, give it a fucking rest already. It's embarassing.



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KLXVER said:
A combination of learning from their mistakes and the other two fucking up.

This, more than anything else.



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Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
KLXVER said:
A combination of learning from their mistakes and the other two fucking up.

This, more than anything else.

If thats the case then how is it that Sony expanded the popularity of console gaming by  nearly doubling its size by themselves?  No console has ever reached 160 million consoles since the playstation. Sony was doing something right from the start. The Xbox One is selling more than the 360 and is still not in Sonys league. On a good day the Xbox is still not in sonys league. A large chunk of 360 gamers actually jumped ship from the PS2 due to Sonys screwing up. The Xbox One will not achieve the lasting sales of the 360 this gen in the end though. 50 to 60 million tops.



LudicrousSpeed said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

actually I was differentiating between a second party publisher and developer (who make things exclusively for a platform for the ip holder). I was referring to a second party developer. The deal with cod is different Much like how Sony wouldn't pay for demon souls Outside of Japan Altus and namco had to step to publish over here as well as in other places

Third party control their intellectual property. Microsoft don't have as many rights as insomniac to sunset overdrive outside of exclusivity

To be honest I expected some better spin than this. No, you weren't differentiating anything. You didn't bring up any different between publisher and developer at all until I provided you actual evidence from someone who actually works in the industry that the type of deal you're describing is in fact second party. Trying to now say there is a difference between publishing and developing is just feeble shifting of goal posts. Here, let me help you with a gif.

This is what you're doing:



This is what you need to be doing:

No offense intended but jeebus, give it a fucking rest already. It's embarassing.

 No. Ive been saying to you that Insomniac wasnt second party to Microsoft from the start. A second party has to be contracted and therefore commissioned to make an exclusive IP and its development process is worked on for said company. Microsoft doesnt own the IP but did agree to publish the game (Thus...making this a third party issue, not second party). Insomniac wasnt commissioned by Microsoft to make Sunset Overdrive. They sought out Microsoft. 

Here is a video which will show you the definitions of first second and third party. it even shows (during the descrption) since Insomniac is a major second party studio for Sony the difference between their role as second party and third party briefly on pictures with Ratchet and clank (second party) and Sunset Overdive (third party)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxR0sUT3egc



LudicrousSpeed said:
Cerebralbore said:
I left Xbox out because it is generally agreed on these forums that MS doesn't have many exclusives.


And yet by your very own definition of what counts as a quality exclusive, Microsoft has provided 13 this gen and Sony has provided 11. And that's even including two games on your list that don't meet your own 80% metascore qualification, like LBP3 and RIGS. I could have included Halo Wars 2 which has the same 79% score LBP3 does but I didn't. Otherwise the count would be 14 vs 11 with Microsoft ahead :)

Cerebralbore said:

That's every AAA XB1 game rated 80% or higher that you can't play on PS4 from 2014 to 2017. I even threw Ori and the Blind Forest in there for good measure.


lol what do you mean "for good measure"? You're including remasters of PS3 games and games available on PS3/Vita in your PS4 list, why would you not include Ori on an Xbox list? You don't need to act as if you're throwing the Xbox a bone there, including Ori is simply following your own guidelines as to which games "count". And no, that's not every Xbone game you can't play on PS4.

Sunset (MS)
Master Chief Collection (MS)
Horizon 2 (MS)
Titanfall
Gears Ultimate (MS)
Halo 5 (MS)
Rare Replay (MS)
Ori (MS)
Forza 6 (MS)
Gears 4 (MS)
Killer Instinct Season 3 (MS)
Horizon 3 (MS)
Ori Definitive Edition (MS, I am including it because you're including remasters on your list)
Halo Wars Definitive Edition (MS)
Halo Wars 2 (MS, which I'll go ahead and count despite its 79 metascore since you included LBP3 and RIGS)

There's 14 games from MS there, which is more than your entire PC list, and more "exclusives that count" than Sony going by your own criteria via what you already posted. So you can say it's "generally agreed MS has no exclusives on this forum" but realize it's only because of FUD like your own list, chock full of bias and double standards and Game A counts on list 1 but Game B doesn't count on list 2 even though it fits the same criteria type of shenanigans.

So just remember next time you're thinking about how MS has no exclusives, that going by your very own standard you've already posted in this thread for us to see, they've actually outpaced Sony. I look forward to your response where you do more of this:

2/3 or more of your list is the same three Gears Halo Forza over and over.  Can they make anything but that brosef Western crap?

With all the Zero Dawn and BotW press I was seriously anticipating a surprise announcement Halo Super Ultra HD 8K ReReReMaster Ultimate Man Football Muscle Lamborghini Gun Helmet Leet Competition Edition.

No diversity on Xbox. The same macho western genres and over again for 8+ years got old. Retro, Japanese, platforming, adventure, and RPGs are getting popular again. Sony embraces that like they always have.  That's why Sony is dominating.  Hopefully the green and brown Western shooter fad is finally over.



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A combination of a well balanced console for $399 that can do 1080p and a bunch of great games. The most infuriating thing about the Xbox is that it's underpowered and doesn't have many exclusives, we still waiting on those E3 2014 games while Sony been pumping out and announcing new titles every year. I'm afraid MS might've learned the wrong lesson with Xbone, that PS4 only won cuz it was more powerful.

Microsoft made the same mistake as Sony did with PS3. They got arrogant and thought they could win the market by doing bunch of non-gaming stuff.

I just love that Sony seems to get what hardcore gamers want, they're courting the best developers like Miyazaki and Kojima without having them come to Sony pitch an idea cuz they know whatever they do it's gonna be great. Square Enix also got the memo this gen.

They must be doing their market research on forums and social media and those in charge like Shu are gamers themselves.



It is because Sony has the best exclusive games on the market and they fixed the PS3 mistakes on PS4.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxR0sUT3egc

I don't need a random YouTube link from some random YouTuber, I have knowledge of decades reading and watching the talk of the industry plus a Sony exec. If you scour Papa Phil's twitter account you'll also see him saying games like Dance Central Spotlight and Ninja Gaiden 2 were 2nd party, both of which are even weaker examples of 2nd party games than Sunset, because they were both already established IPs :)

Or maybe we need to take YouTuber #615 at his word over Phil Spencer and whatever Yoshida? Look, I tried to throw you a lifeboat but you seem intent on drowning here so have fun. 



Marketing, Price, Performance, Hardware, Games.

I mean... the PS4 was smaller than the XB1, had an internal PSU, looked better, was more powerful and launched at a lower price.

Games was a slow start but now Sony have started rolling they're winning on the games front too.



Predictions (Made July 2019)

LTD: PS4 - 130m, Switch - 110m, XBO - 52m       2019 : PS4 - 15m, Switch - 18.8m, XBO - 4.8m        2020: Switch - 22m (Peak Year)


LivingMetal said:
Imaginedvl said:

Are you really going to continue with your non-sense? Who said Microsoft price was justified or not? The thread is about WHY the Play Station Four took the market not about how you think Microsoft should have priced their hardware.

I'm right on topic.  You mentioned that the price of the Xbox One was the factor.  I expounded upon it, and you can disagree all you want.  That's your opinions as well.  But if you are too scared to answer a question that requires critical thinking, then you are in denial of the fuller picture of why the pricing was an issue.  Because either Microsoft promoted a product that the consumer wanted at a reasonable price or they pushed an agenda that served them more than the consumer.  So let's see which is it.

Looking back, the two groups of consumers who would have wanted an Xbox One at launch were rabid Microsoft/Xbox fanboys or those who wanted something specifically from the Xbox such as Halo, Gears, Kinect, etc.  Because who else in there right mind would pay $500 for a item when you have another option that costed $400 and did those same things better?  So why was the Xbox One $100 more than the PS4?  Maybe it was Kinect because a camera wasn't bundled with the PS4.  But did the consumer wanted it?  Apparently not since Microsoft had to debundle it from the Xbox unit a year later due to poor sales, and they charged $150 for Kinect standalone.  So if you were to buy a standalone Xbox One for $400 and later bought Kinect for $150, why in the hell would you since a the original bundle costed $500?  Obviously, most of us didn't want an overpriced, underpowered console with "junk" hardware.  The Xbox One itself isn't a bad console.  But the reality I live in has the option of the PS4, and the One looked prety pathetic when compared to what Sony had to offer.  So it wasn't just about price.  The One just wasn't worth it because Microsoft bundling Kinect with every Xbox One is just as bad if not worse than Gamestop bundling hardware people didn't want with a console.  And why pay more for less?  Microsoft thought people were stupid enough to buy into their bullshit.  This is why Sony took the market.

No you are not on topic at all with your questions. The topic is why or how Sony retake the market.

My answer (base on my personnal oppinion) was very simple: Price, their console was 100$ less expensive and both were able to play the same games and seen as a new generation console to the general consumer. I never talked about why it was more or less, the final point is, one was cheaper, end of story. Only fanboys and nerds are really caring about the CPU, GPU, more pixels here and there, more FPS and other stuff like that in the console which is probably a very little portion of the marketshare. To the general consumers, COD runs and plays the same on both console, one is 100$ less tho... Choice is simple.

Your point is about how "fair" the price of the Xbox One was and how evil Microsoft are and how such bullshit it was and blah blah blah blah. The point is:  it was 100$ more than the Play Station Four for the SAME capabilities to the general consumer. Simple as that. I'm not scared to "answer" your question as it is not even important and what I think is obviously different than you and as the 28.7M Xbox One sold to date prove, the Xbox One offers a lot of value, obviously not to YOU tho. And looking at your rent on Microsoft, the Xbox One, how powerfull and mighty the Play Station Four is and how Kinect was "forced" to you like Microsoft had any magical way to force you to spend your money on their offering (really people saying that are just hiloarious...)... It is pretty clear that you are not here to debate but just hammer your oppinion about Microsoft offering which I respectfully disagree and do not care about...