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Forums - Politics Discussion - Europe- economy, immigrants, and a potential inspiration

LadyJasmine said:
Soundwave said:

Most immigrants to Canada are still poor when they get here. The majority of those people coming from India, China, the Philiphines, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, etc. don't come to Canada rich. But the immigrants in Canada I see generally are willing to work hard and work their way up the ladder ... I don't know if that's because of the screening process or something within the Canadian culture that filters down or what. 

There is a differencebetween being poor and coming to a country legally and coming poor and coming into a country illegally.

Through legal immigration you can run checks on people and select the flow of immigration and ensure a diversity of immigration. 

 

The problem with Europe is that it has mostly taken massive flows from one area or culture and thrown most of them into ghettos.

Another thing to note is with normal inmigration, the inmigrant runs the risk of deportation even after being admited. So they have to keep working, behaving and integrating. 

The refugie type inmigrant witch are going into EU dont have this fear. On top of that they will be taken cared off even if they dont want to work. They have no reason to try and work or integrate. Not good for the economy.



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eva01beserk said:
LadyJasmine said:

There is a differencebetween being poor and coming to a country legally and coming poor and coming into a country illegally.

Through legal immigration you can run checks on people and select the flow of immigration and ensure a diversity of immigration. 

 

The problem with Europe is that it has mostly taken massive flows from one area or culture and thrown most of them into ghettos.

Another thing to note is with normal inmigration, the inmigrant runs the risk of deportation even after being admited. So they have to keep working, behaving and integrating. 

The refugie type inmigrant witch are going into EU dont have this fear. On top of that they will be taken cared off even if they dont want to work. They have no reason to try and work or integrate. Not good for the economy.

That seems like a rather simple policy fix though. I think Europeans being more reserved and kinda in their own world is a bit of a problem too, in the US/Canada in most neighborhoods it's customary to go chat with your neighbor and welcome them to the neighborhood and stuff like that or at the very least give a friendly wave hello now and again. Europeans are kinda cold about things like that. 



Bofferbrauer said:
monocle_layton said:

For a while, we have seen some...passionate people say we should get rid of immigrants and stop integration. After all, they're responsible for the issues we see in Europe, right?

Well, it's a yes and no.

I certainly will not doubt that some immigrants/refugees aren't perfect (that is human nature). Unfortunately, some of them take advantage of welfare systems or try to abuse their freedom to restrict the freedom of others. However, it seems like people think we only have the options to accept all of them or deport them all. 

We don't need any of that. Just looking at Minnesota and we see very similar problems:

1. Stagnant economy

2. High amounts of immigrants.

3. Had issues with labor force.

4. Minimum wage was not suitable for many.

http://tcbmag.com/News/Recent-News/2017/February/How-Minnesota-s-Success-Is-Dependent-On-Immigrants

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/biggest-state-economic-turnaround-story-minnesota.html

These articles showed that the state I live in wasn't exactly the most gorgeous place for the past five years. With a very high amount of Somalis too, I am sure many people probably thought Minnesota will turn into a wasteland.

Thankfully, the opposite happened. So, what gives? They went from having a several billion dollar deficit to having one of the fastest growing economies in the US. Higher taxes (with big increases on the rich)? We benefited! Unlike the poor regions of other major cities, you won't have to worry about being shot in the poor regions of the Twin Cities. We have many things such as constantly improved roads, which are vital for a very snowy/rainy state. We are also one of the happiest and kindest states. Minnesota also features a lot in terms of scenery, with 10,000 lakes and unbelievably gorgeous forests.

We are always overlooked, and I wonder why? We turned ourselves around, and yet it seems like some people believe their agendas will magically turn Europe into a powerhouse. 

We have a Somali population of around 80k, many of them refugees. You know how bad the terrorism issue is? Only 1 mass stabbing occurred in St. Cloud, and one incident of around 20 men plotting to join ISIS have happened in the past several years. Why do we have little problems with highly religious people? 

The answer is rather simple- we carefully admit refugees. You gain nothing from denying immigrants and refugees- after all, us Minnesotans can thank them for increasing our diversity and economy. Managing immigrants/refugees who enter is what makes problems or solutions. I think the extremists who go as far as to say we should kick out all non-natives are really taking it too far (along with those who call for completely open borders). Both of those are unnecessary- simply taking better control around this issue will prevent these things from happening. 

 

Minnesota wasn't a perfect state not too long ago- in the span of a few years though, the improvements have turned it into a top 10 state easily. Eco friendly, politically moderate, lack of police issues, and so many more good things (such as):

1. 1.7 people killed per 100,000, 7th lowest in country

2. One of the fastest growing economies

3. Many religious communities throughout the cities.

4. Support for bikers and those who don't use cars.

5. Decent population density (not too high or low)

6. Lack of issues with immigrants.

7. Good public schools.

 

 

I can go on, but i am not trying to turn into an advertiser for trips to Minnesota :P

I am also not trying to bash anyone for having a certain opinion- I gain nothing from insulting someone or acting superior.

I just thought it's worth having people taking a look at Minnesota's revival, especially for those who are conservative. If immigrants in Europe had as little issues as in Minnesota, will they still dislike them?

 

Edit: I know I said I don't wanna sound like self advertisement, but let me just tell you that Minnesota is simply badass. I will probably never find a state better than it. Simply put, the current condition it is in has simply allowed so many people to finally live happy lives. I am really appreciative of Minnesota's effort to turn the state into something greater. I hope any state struggling bounces back up as well as MN.

I have another example here: Luxembourg, hy home country.

Half of the inhabitants are immigrants (mostly from portugal, but with an increasing part of eastern europeans and north africans/middle easterns). before the 1950s, Luxembourg was a pretty poor country with net emigration (many to the US) and just a handful of foreigners. Since then we have become a country full of diverse cultures... and become one of the 5 richest countries in the world per capita

Luxembourg is also a country with a population of about half a million, a lot easier to manage the people than massive countries like the US. It'd be great if the rest of the states would individually take notes from Minnesota and countries of similar population to themselves and find a way to make compromises and and reach a moderate middle ground. 



It helps if the immigrant is willing to accept local culture which I dont many muslim migrants in Europe are

 

They think many of your are godless heathens lol 



Soundwave said:
eva01beserk said:

Another thing to note is with normal inmigration, the inmigrant runs the risk of deportation even after being admited. So they have to keep working, behaving and integrating. 

The refugie type inmigrant witch are going into EU dont have this fear. On top of that they will be taken cared off even if they dont want to work. They have no reason to try and work or integrate. Not good for the economy.

That seems like a rather simple policy fix though. I think Europeans being more reserved and kinda in their own world is a bit of a problem too, in the US/Canada in most neighborhoods it's customary to go chat with your neighbor and welcome them to the neighborhood and stuff like that or at the very least give a friendly wave hello now and again. Europeans are kinda cold about things like that. 

I dont know a thing about europeans so I cant comment.

But refugies cant be deported. They can stop resiving assistance and if they leave the country for any reason, like a vacation or something, they wont be allowed in if their refugie status is revoked. At least thats what I know of the canadian law since I was working at the inmigration office for a while. As far as I know it could be diferent in EU.



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monocle_layton said:
Bofferbrauer said:

I have another example here: Luxembourg, hy home country.

Half of the inhabitants are immigrants (mostly from portugal, but with an increasing part of eastern europeans and north africans/middle easterns). before the 1950s, Luxembourg was a pretty poor country with net emigration (many to the US) and just a handful of foreigners. Since then we have become a country full of diverse cultures... and become one of the 5 richest countries in the world per capita

 

Bofferbrauer said:

I have another example here: Luxembourg, hy home country.

Half of the inhabitants are immigrants (mostly from portugal, but with an increasing part of eastern europeans and north africans/middle easterns). before the 1950s, Luxembourg was a pretty poor country with net emigration (many to the US) and just a handful of foreigners. Since then we have become a country full of diverse cultures... and become one of the 5 richest countries in the world per capita

Is it worth visiting? I may go to Switzerland and another European country one day

Go to austria, North Italy (South Tirol, Veronna, maybe down to the Abruzzi), or South Germany (Munich and Nuremberg) if you're looking for unique culture. If you're looking for a beautiful ocean, Croatia has that, especially the islands. Slovenia is a compromise.



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eva01beserk said:
Soundwave said:

That seems like a rather simple policy fix though. I think Europeans being more reserved and kinda in their own world is a bit of a problem too, in the US/Canada in most neighborhoods it's customary to go chat with your neighbor and welcome them to the neighborhood and stuff like that or at the very least give a friendly wave hello now and again. Europeans are kinda cold about things like that. 

I dont know a thing about europeans so I cant comment.

But refugies cant be deported. They can stop resiving assistance and if they leave the country for any reason, like a vacation or something, they wont be allowed in if their refugie status is revoked. At least thats what I know of the canadian law since I was working at the inmigration office for a while. As far as I know it could be diferent in EU.

One thing I most definately would agree with is forcing refugees through identification (fingerprint and iris), and revoking access immediately upon crime.

 

Otherwise, I do believe that several places in the Middle East are dangerous enough that the refugee status is valid.



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TheLegendaryWolf said:
Bofferbrauer said:

I have another example here: Luxembourg, hy home country.

Half of the inhabitants are immigrants (mostly from portugal, but with an increasing part of eastern europeans and north africans/middle easterns). before the 1950s, Luxembourg was a pretty poor country with net emigration (many to the US) and just a handful of foreigners. Since then we have become a country full of diverse cultures... and become one of the 5 richest countries in the world per capita

Luxembourg is also a country with a population of about half a million, a lot easier to manage the people than massive countries like the US. It'd be great if the rest of the states would individually take notes from Minnesota and countries of similar population to themselves and find a way to make compromises and and reach a moderate middle ground. 

Yeah, 500,000 VS 5.5 million is a big difference. Regardless, it is great to know Luxembourg is doing well. The GDP is over $100,000! I knew it was a successful country, but I never expected it to be this great.



palou said:
eva01beserk said:

I dont know a thing about europeans so I cant comment.

But refugies cant be deported. They can stop resiving assistance and if they leave the country for any reason, like a vacation or something, they wont be allowed in if their refugie status is revoked. At least thats what I know of the canadian law since I was working at the inmigration office for a while. As far as I know it could be diferent in EU.

One thing I most definately would agree with is forcing refugees through identification (fingerprint and iris), and revoking access immediately upon crime.

 

Otherwise, I do believe that several places in the Middle East are dangerous enough that the refugee status is valid.

Yea, I should have mentioned that the only few times I have seen a refugie status revoked was because of convicted crimes. SOmetimes more than one and them reciveing warnings and still doing the same stupid things. Dint want to say this, but also they where all muslim. Not trying to say anything, just pointed that out.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk said:
palou said:

One thing I most definately would agree with is forcing refugees through identification (fingerprint and iris), and revoking access immediately upon crime.

 

Otherwise, I do believe that several places in the Middle East are dangerous enough that the refugee status is valid.

Yea, I should have mentioned that the only few times I have seen a refugie status revoked was because of convicted crimes. SOmetimes more than one and them reciveing warnings and still doing the same stupid things. Dint want to say this, but also they where all muslim. Not trying to say anything, just pointed that out.

Well, the vast majority of what I would qualify as valid refugee countries are muslim, so there's that...



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