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Forums - Politics Discussion - Europe- economy, immigrants, and a potential inspiration

bonzobanana said:
The german situation doesn't seem much different to a lot of Europe.

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/germany

A large amount of debt per head, also pension debt not listed for public sector worker pensions and they are tied to a currency where many countries have crippling debt like Italy at 140% gdp. At the moment Germany has a feel good factor as being linked to such economies makes German exports more competitive because those countries devalue the currency but the Euro is also a huge liability.

It's all getting really messy in Europe with huge problems pushed into the future rather than faced by more borrowing, same in the USA. It's like the future is a place where we think we will be rich again and these debts can be easily paid and so we can borrow massively today.

I don't think I've got anything in my house that is German made or French. My tumble dryer is Italian I think. My car is korean. Much of my white goods are Turkish as is my TV. All my PCs and consoles are Chinese and what stuff I have that has European brands is often made elsewhere if not Chinese possibly eastern european countries. I have a range of bikes and most are taiwanese or chinese or a mixture of both. I'm sure I probably do have something German or French made just nothing major springs to mind.

I mean you look at this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yn5kIpIrv0&t

The factory looks amazing, they mention only a few of the brands they manufacture for, brands from across Europe and the US. Quality looks brilliant too. The economies of scale are incredible. How can Europe or the US compete with that especially with the chinese currency kept artificially low in value to aid exports.

Your debtclock is nonesense, Germany has paid off further debt (made a budget surplus) in the last 3 years (one of the few countries to do so.) You also have to take inflation in account; a debt that stays the same is becoming easier and easier to pay, over the years, because that money represents less and less of what you earn. This number is going down quite dramatically, from both a growing GDP and the fairly unique situation of Germany actually paying back their debts, slowly: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdp (It's now at around 69%)

 

The German government's fiscal situation is considered so ridiculously safe that it now the interest rate is negative if you loan money for 5 years: https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/germany 

Germany would actually be making money on any new debt they take.

 

The US, in comparision: https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bonds/us

 

Also, irregardles of what you believe or what is the case for you personaly, Germany exports an absolutely ridiculous ammount, in comparision to GDP, more than half of what China exports, despite having a total economy a sixth of the size. The European Union exports more than anyone else (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports).

Here's a list of countries by exports per capita. You will notice that Europe is doing quite decently there, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports_per_capita



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Soundwave said:

US you have to have some street smarts in some of the big cities and gotta know where you're going. 

Europe is a joke, lol, I've walked around streets alone even in "tougher" areas at like 2-3 AM and never felt really threatened. It's not as "safe" feeling as say Canada, but compared to the US, it's a Disney movie.

Which is all the more reason to try and prevent Mass Third World migration into Disney Eurocities.

I find the US obsession with the utter crapfest that is Hip-Hop, alongside Crime and violence, utterly depressing. People don't mix on the whole, as is proven throughout the World where immigrants arrive in large numbers. Black areas, Asian areas, etc.. People like their own people, it's human nature.

US Black and Hispanic culture seems primitive, divisive and over-bearing to me, and most others I speak to. Who in their right mind would want to import that kind of future for themselves or their kids? Portable ghettos full of disenfranchised people with an axe to grind, whom you have zero in common with. Why would you want that?



vivster said:
eva01beserk said:

You need to explain what you mean by right wing fud. Cuz I have seen videos of crimes being comited and the response of the media is sweep it under the rug. Even cops saying they dont act because they are afraid of being laveled a racist.  I really belive tthe fud is coming from the lef.

News flash, the vast majority of all crimes do not get reported in the media.

Reporting about single instances is not the problem, basing on those few instances theories about how immigrants are inherently evil is the issue. I have yet to see mainstream media spreading false information.

Well, speaking on behalf of the UK, the media is hugely left biased.

Every single incident that could be deemed racist is reported in depth, as long as the vitim is non-white or foreign.

Therefore, the media is spreading false information, by giving the impression white people are vile racists and migrants are precious little victims as their crimes are unreported.

In England, mass rapes, murders and abuse of schoolgirls, racist attacks all unreported so as not to offend minorities. Utterly disgraceful!

In the meantime, well meaning do-gooders from areas untouched by immigrants see no issue in importing more as they never hear any bad about them, and their voting goes in mass immigration favour.



eva01beserk said:
vivster said:

News flash, the vast majority of all crimes do not get reported in the media.

Reporting about single instances is not the problem, basing on those few instances theories about how immigrants are inherently evil is the issue. I have yet to see mainstream media spreading false information.

There is no doubt that most crimes go unreported. But thats not the problem. Its not even that inmigrant comited crimes go unreported. The problem is when such crime ocours, they tend to leave out certain informatio, like nationality and the sort or disasosiating the fact that a muslim was involved or it was religiously motivated. Is not lying, i get that, but it does paint a picture.

While I do get their point off view, that they dont want people to start discriminating and make a panic and all that, if they keep going to such etends is the reason why we see thouse leaked vids that do paint inmigrants in a worse light, the the actual number of instanses gets exagerted cus the the media hides the real numbers to show no issues at all.

This is a case of people making things worse even though they are doing things with the best intentions. could have been avoided by just being honest from the start and true, not all inmigrants are good.

The problem is this "honest" attitude is helping no one. We cannot just stop every immigrant coming into a country and we cannot screen every immigrant reliably. So all we can do is try to be as welcoming as possible and create a social structure where living together is possible.

This negative attitude is only damaging in the end and increases the hate and the motivation to attack us.



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vivster said:
eva01beserk said:

There is no doubt that most crimes go unreported. But thats not the problem. Its not even that inmigrant comited crimes go unreported. The problem is when such crime ocours, they tend to leave out certain informatio, like nationality and the sort or disasosiating the fact that a muslim was involved or it was religiously motivated. Is not lying, i get that, but it does paint a picture.

While I do get their point off view, that they dont want people to start discriminating and make a panic and all that, if they keep going to such etends is the reason why we see thouse leaked vids that do paint inmigrants in a worse light, the the actual number of instanses gets exagerted cus the the media hides the real numbers to show no issues at all.

This is a case of people making things worse even though they are doing things with the best intentions. could have been avoided by just being honest from the start and true, not all inmigrants are good.

The problem is this "honest" attitude is helping no one. We cannot just stop every immigrant coming into a country and we cannot screen every immigrant reliably. So all we can do is try to be as welcoming as possible and create a social structure where living together is possible.

This negative attitude is only damaging in the end and increases the hate and the motivation to attack us.

No one said stop inmigration completly, is right in the OP. But the answer is not open borders eiither. If we canot screen all inmigrants reliably then we do as best as we can, but neither extreme is going to end well.

There would not be a negative feedback where the maintream media not been only reporting possitivy stuff regarding inmigrants. The reason we see all this stuf surface and panic is issuing is because people fell lyed to be getting theese few instanses hiden from them. If things where honest from the begining this new type of youtube media and echo chambers would not have arised. 



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Immigrants who come with no money, lack of needed skills and with without the ability to speak the language bring nothing to the economy.

Also Europe has issues due to high taxes and regulations, that's the main thing hampering the economy.



KingCherry said:
vivster said:

News flash, the vast majority of all crimes do not get reported in the media.

Reporting about single instances is not the problem, basing on those few instances theories about how immigrants are inherently evil is the issue. I have yet to see mainstream media spreading false information.

Well, speaking on behalf of the UK, the media is hugely left biased.

Every single incident that could be deemed racist is reported in depth, as long as the vitim is non-white or foreign.

Therefore, the media is spreading false information, by giving the impression white people are vile racists and migrants are precious little victims as their crimes are unreported.

In England, mass rapes, murders and abuse of schoolgirls, racist attacks all unreported so as not to offend minorities. Utterly disgraceful!

In the meantime, well meaning do-gooders from areas untouched by immigrants see no issue in importing more as they never hear any bad about them, and their voting goes in mass immigration favour.

Just don't look at the media at all. Information given is worthless. So is any individual example you can give

 

Statistical reality:

-Crimes rates among certain immigrant groups are higher than average, particulary for those of african origin. However;

-This directly correlates to poverty, in the same manner as among white people

-The main victim of the supplementary crimes are the immigrants themselves. For a white person, white people are more dangerous, in average, than non-white individuals.

 

This comes from the fact that almost all crime is committed among people that know each other, well. If there is one thing universaly mirepresented by all media sources, left or right, it's the stranger-danger. Almost all murders are among people that know each other for a long time. Child molestation is almost always done by teachers, family friends or family themselves (parents being sadly the most frequent.) Rape is most often committed by people that already had a relationship.

 

 

If you're not interacting, building relationships with them, the immigrant populations are not dangerous in any significant way. Be afraid of those you know, not those you don't.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

LadyJasmine said:
Minnesota is not that liberal.

It almost voted for Trump where he lost by 1.5%

I believe MN is moderate, not liberal



areason said:
Immigrants who come with no money, lack of needed skills and with without the ability to speak the language bring nothing to the economy.

Also Europe has issues due to high taxes and regulations, that's the main thing hampering the economy.

Long live the bureaucracy of EU. We should learn from Australia now that's immigration and security done right. The British will probably also take on such a system after they leave the EU. They are an island so they can actually close their borders to unwanted immigrants unlike the rest of Europe 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

palou said:
KingCherry said:

Well, speaking on behalf of the UK, the media is hugely left biased.

Every single incident that could be deemed racist is reported in depth, as long as the vitim is non-white or foreign.

Therefore, the media is spreading false information, by giving the impression white people are vile racists and migrants are precious little victims as their crimes are unreported.

In England, mass rapes, murders and abuse of schoolgirls, racist attacks all unreported so as not to offend minorities. Utterly disgraceful!

In the meantime, well meaning do-gooders from areas untouched by immigrants see no issue in importing more as they never hear any bad about them, and their voting goes in mass immigration favour.

Just don't look at the media at all. Information given is worthless. So is any individual example you can give

 

Statistical reality:

-Crimes rates among certain immigrant groups are higher than average, particulary for those of african origin. However;

-This directly correlates to poverty, in the same manner as among white people

-The main victim of the supplementary crimes are the immigrants themselves. For a white person, white people are more dangerous, in average, than non-white individuals.

 

This comes from the fact that almost all crime is committed among people that know each other, well. If there is one thing universaly mirepresented by all media sources, left or right, it's the stranger-danger. Almost all murders are among people that know each other for a long time. Child molestation is almost always done by teachers, family friends or family themselves (parents being sadly the most frequent.) Rape is most often committed by people that already had a relationship.

 

 

If you're not interacting, building relationships with them, the immigrant populations are not dangerous in any significant way. Be afraid of those you know, not those you don't.

In the US, as a percentage of the population, a  black person is 200 times more likely to attack a white person than vice versa...