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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - People's reaction to negative Zelda reviews reminded me of this gem.

Renna Hazel said:
MTZehvor said:

The difference is intentionality. If you want to make the argument that his experience was different than the average person's, and as such is likely not a good indicator of how much they will enjoy it, then that's one thing. If you want to accuse him of what is essentially dishonesty, that's something entirely different, and an accusation that really shouldn't be thrown around without tangible evidence.

To put it another way, the difference between the two is whether he's genuinely reporting his experience, and his experience simply isn't likely to be applicable for most players, or whether he's intentionally overstating certain parts of his experience with the intent to mislead readers.

I do believe it's the latter. That's just the impression I get from the guy, so that's what I said. You seem to be taking that to heart, and that's fine I guess. Whether it's a bias or just him going out of his way to make the game a worse experience, I find the review to be so far removed from my own point of view. With that, I disregard his opinion as a reviewer.

I'm not particularly concerned with people deciding to disregard certain opinions if they feel their experience has or is likely to be different. What does bother me is users, particularly in the video game community, trying to delegitimize a review for everyone simply because it doesn't line up with their opinion (perhaps the most notable recent example occurring with IGN's Uncharted 4 review). If you want to personally ignore a review because you don't think their experience won't line up with your own, or even if you suspect them of being dishonest, that's fine. But telling other people that they are definitively being dishonest (and therefore discrediting their opinion) with nothing to back it up besides your impression is something else entirely.



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MTZehvor said:
Renna Hazel said:

I do believe it's the latter. That's just the impression I get from the guy, so that's what I said. You seem to be taking that to heart, and that's fine I guess. Whether it's a bias or just him going out of his way to make the game a worse experience, I find the review to be so far removed from my own point of view. With that, I disregard his opinion as a reviewer.

I'm not particularly concerned with people deciding to disregard certain opinions if they feel their experience has or is likely to be different. What does bother me is users, particularly in the video game community, trying to delegitimize a review for everyone simply because it doesn't line up with their opinion (perhaps the most notable recent example occurring with IGN's Uncharted 4 review). If you want to personally ignore a review because you don't think their experience won't line up with your own, or even if you suspect them of being dishonest, that's fine. But telling other people that they are definitively being dishonest (and therefore discrediting their opinion) with nothing to back it up besides your impression is something else entirely.

I laid out where I believe Jim is misleading people. You disagreeing with that is fine, but it's part of the basis for which I've formed my opinion. I could also point out Jim's little Horizon vs Zelda rant where he cherry picked information to paint one fanbase in a negative light. I'm sure you've seen this article

http://www.thejimquisition.com/the-sad-ghost-war-between-breath-of-the-wild-and-horizon-zero-dawn/

“So I guess Jim is going to use this comment section to justify how Zelda fans are toxic and all that, yet he still hasn’t commented on the Metabombing of the Metacritic user score by Horizon: Zero Dawn fans,” wrote one responder to The Jimquisition’s Breath of the Wild review.

This sentiment is not uncommon amongst those Zelda fans who genuinely are toxic, the fans I guess I’ll just call Fucking Slithering Pricks.

This is a sentiment almost anyone following metacritic has, and there is just as much evidence of Horizon fans "metabombing" Zelda BotW. Mathematically speaking, Zelda has a higher percentage of 'metabomb' scores than Horizon does. But this entire article was written to make one fanbase look bad regardless of the facts. I truly do believe he has something against the game and it's fans. 

At the very least, Jim has gone far beyond discrediting one's opinions and has gone on to directly insulting users on his site and Zelda fans (who believe the game is also being 'metabombed'). 

I'm sorry but I completely discredit the opinion on individuals who act like this, and I truly believe he's showing a VERY clear bias. It's fine if you disagree with me, but my accusation certainly is not baseless. 



Peh said:
archer9234 said:

If you come across the material. I didn't. Weapons breaking made me avoid most encounters. So that delayed me finding info out. My goal was to reach the fartest tower. So, I didn't go near main NPC's. It Didn't give me exilixr tips. It usually spams the Don't engage enemies head on. Plus, I was also live streaming. I didn't read the tips all that much.

You are telling me that you havn't caught a frog, or a lizard, or any insect, at all? Difficult to believe that. But you can also cook food with certain mushrooms to restore stamina while eating. Those stuff is lying everywhere around and everyone of those tells you what you can do with it.

Nope, never bothered getting bugs. I've cleared two beasts, without doing any of that. I just looked it up now. I'd need a cricket. Never got that before. didn't even know you could upgrade the slate to add bug as a sensor. I never even used the camera function.

Renna Hazel said:
archer9234 said:

That's not the point I was making. I wanted to just directly fight them. Or that the controls to drop food, was better. I've gotten caught, due to dumb issues with the stealth system. I had it once. Where I was able to engage the instant back kill. The game still read me as caught. And I was still able to kill him. Second, the caught mechanic shouldn't even be in the game. Once you get seen. It needs to just do game over. It's a waste of time, making you think you can try to fight your way through.

You can directly fight them, if that's the route you choose. I think you just want the game to be easier? The things that you claim the game doesn't allow you to do, are indeed possible. They'll be harder if you skip everything, but still possible. 

It honestly sounds like you want to be able to jump to any segment of the game at any time without having to learn any of the gameplay systems. Learning how to play and getting better will take time in any game. This is not unique to Zelda. 

That's what open world is about. I had no idea what's hard or not. I just choose: Let me unlock all the towers. I'll deal with the farthest one (top left), first. I was like. Let me get the big headache out of the way. Got stuck, with limitations. Went to the right side, of the world. Did some shrines, cleared one beast. Then I was like: This isn't really do whatever. I still have to do certain requirements.

Peh said:
Renna Hazel said:

You can directly fight them, if that's the route you choose. I think you just want the game to be easier? The things that you claim the game doesn't allow you to do, are indeed possible. They'll be harder if you skip everything, but still possible. 

It honestly sounds like you want to be able to jump to any segment of the game at any time without having to learn any of the gameplay systems. Learning how to play and getting better will take time in any game. This is not unique to Zelda. 

You can also throw a banana in front of them. This will trigger a funny distraction.

I know. I've cleared it. I'm just saying you really can't fight them directly. The big guys have way too much HP. ANd fighting 4 of them is way too rediculess.



I'll admit I haven't played THAT many open world games, but I've never played a game where you can just jump to any segment without having to learn anything about the game. Even in open world games, you can't just do any segment you want...you still have to get there, and there may be some challenge along the way.

Still, the game didn't force you to deviate from your plans, it was just too (understandably) hard for you to do at the time. It could still be done without going out of your way. The tutorial area teaches you everything you need to know in order to accomplish pretty much any task in the game.



Renna Hazel said:
I'll admit I haven't played THAT many open world games, but I've never played a game where you can just jump to any segment without having to learn anything about the game. Even in open world games, you can't just do any segment you want...you still have to get there, and there may be some challenge along the way.

Still, the game didn't force you to deviate from your plans, it was just too (understandably) hard for you to do at the time. It could still be done without going out of your way. The tutorial area teaches you everything you need to know in order to accomplish pretty much any task in the game.

It didn't though. I didn't know anything about bugs, till now. Because I thought they were not important. Just background things. I never bothered to think. To run after a butterfly, or a cricket. Just focused on towers. And was in the mind set. Everythings different from past zelda games. Bugs are probably gone.



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archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:
I'll admit I haven't played THAT many open world games, but I've never played a game where you can just jump to any segment without having to learn anything about the game. Even in open world games, you can't just do any segment you want...you still have to get there, and there may be some challenge along the way.

Still, the game didn't force you to deviate from your plans, it was just too (understandably) hard for you to do at the time. It could still be done without going out of your way. The tutorial area teaches you everything you need to know in order to accomplish pretty much any task in the game.

It didn't though. I didn't know anything about bugs, till now. Because I thought they were not important. Just background things. I never bothered to think. To run after a butterfly, or a cricket. Just focused on towers. And was in the mind set. Everythings different from past zelda games. Bugs are probably not useful anymore.

Well, it does...you don't need to use bugs to accomplish anything in the game. There is an area that introducing you to cooking. Obviously it's not going to give you all the recipes, but you learn the fundamentals that you need to succeed in the game. You learn how to cook and the benefits of doing so in the tutorial area, whether or not you choose to explore the mechanic further is up to the player.



Renna Hazel said:
archer9234 said:

It didn't though. I didn't know anything about bugs, till now. Because I thought they were not important. Just background things. I never bothered to think. To run after a butterfly, or a cricket. Just focused on towers. And was in the mind set. Everythings different from past zelda games. Bugs are probably not useful anymore.

Well, it does...you don't need to use bugs to accomplish anything in the game. There is an area that introducing you to cooking. Obviously it's not going to give you all the recipes, but you learn the fundamentals that you need to succeed in the game. You learn how to cook and the benefits of doing so in the tutorial area, whether or not you choose to explore the mechanic further is up to the player.

If I didn't think there was anything else to do, with cooking. I'm not gonna try anything else. You won't learn that, intill you run into the other NPC's. Which is what I didn't do lol. I picked a way, that avoided contact, with the basic game elements. Till I got stuck. Now, that I know this, that, and the other stuff. Ofcourse I can do all the towers without upgrading stamina and hearts. But, that knollege is still apart of following the games basic path. I didn't think going for the map, was gonna cause this issue. I'm also not saying I want dumb things like Fi. The game is already easy, as it is. The bird beast was really stupid easy... It just has annoying aspects, I don't like.



So you thought there was just one recipe used for just the tutorial area of the game and that's all? I'm actually fairly confident that the old man mentions other recipes during that segment (just that they exist). It's also in the description of items you pick up. Obviously you gain things by exploring the game. I'm really not sure I understand your criticism and how you expect a game to work. Perhaps you could explain what you think should be done to alleviate these issues? It kind of just sounds like you want Link to be maxed out as soon as the game starts. Even then, you still have to learn things.



archer9234 said:
Renna Hazel said:
I'll admit I haven't played THAT many open world games, but I've never played a game where you can just jump to any segment without having to learn anything about the game. Even in open world games, you can't just do any segment you want...you still have to get there, and there may be some challenge along the way.

Still, the game didn't force you to deviate from your plans, it was just too (understandably) hard for you to do at the time. It could still be done without going out of your way. The tutorial area teaches you everything you need to know in order to accomplish pretty much any task in the game.

It didn't though. I didn't know anything about bugs, till now. Because I thought they were not important. Just background things. I never bothered to think. To run after a butterfly, or a cricket. Just focused on towers. And was in the mind set. Everythings different from past zelda games. Bugs are probably gone.

It's in every description of monster items you pick up after killing a monster... This is purely your own fault. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

archer9234 said:
d21lewis said:

I stealth killed every enemy I'm the Yiga clan area except for one. I whistled and he left the door unguarded so I ran through!

That's not the point I was making. I wanted to just directly fight them. Or that the controls to drop food, was better. I've gotten caught, due to dumb issues with the stealth system. I had it once. Where I was able to engage the instant back kill. The game still read me as caught. And I was still able to kill him. Second, the caught mechanic shouldn't even be in the game. Once you get seen. It needs to just do game over. It's a waste of time, making you think you can try to fight your way through.

You can directly fight them... I killed them all and didn't bother with stealth. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides