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Forums - General Discussion - Do You Accept Evolution as a Fact?

 

Do you believe in evolution?

Yes 657 75.69%
 
Mostly, some things are questionable. 74 8.53%
 
No 99 11.41%
 
Not really, but some could be true. 38 4.38%
 
Total:868
DonaldJTrump said:
The concept of evolution was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing and Christianity non-competitive.

Yes, I remember when Mao created the myth of evolution during the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s as part of the destruction of the Four Olds.



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Good job everyone for keeping the thread civilized with constructive comments for the most part.



SpokenTruth said:
DonaldJTrump said:
The concept of evolution was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing and Christianity non-competitive.

That's your best one yet.

Rogerioandrade said:

They´re not. It´s just that most people never really wanted to trace the parallels between them or to properly analyse the context of the history of the creation told by the Bible ( I say Bible because it´s the one I know )

People will always prefer to be divisive in this matter. It´s easier to be divisive than to discuss junction ideas.

But not me, to me religion and science are not opposite at all and both help us comprehend what mankind is made of.

It doesn't work that way.  You don't begin with a conclusion and then work backwards.  Religion tells you how to go to heavens, not how the heavens go.  Mixing the two dilutes the purpose and function of the two.  It's not that they are opposite or that they are enemies.   They are just different things and mixing them together benefits neither.  You get a science that is handcuffed and a religion masquerading as something it is not.

In that sense, then should people decide to live either by the social/cultural standards dictated by science and its theories or by the social/cultural  standards dictated by religion and its "myths" ?

I dont think so. I don´t have any problem living with both concepts and ideas and using one integrated to another. Neither any of my close christian, buddish or muslim friends and/or work partners.

This is exactly what I said before: people prefer to be divisive and to polarize science and religion instead of trying to understand that , although different in essence as human knowledge, both are necessary for mankind in their own way and people can live with both ideas, if they´re smart and tolerant enough for that.



marioboy2004 said:

So how does evolution account for human conscience?  any evidence or do I have to have a lot of FAITH

If we were to look at the human conscience (which scientists have), the common conclusion is that the conscience is a reflexive use of our own mortality. Humans have a remarkable way of applying things they see to themselves. Some people see a guy get kicked in the balls and feel it. Some people with allergies only have to look at their allergen, and start developing symptoms, the phenomenon of sympathetic pregnancy, seeing a car get totalled can sometimes make you worry about your own car. We also see meaning in zodiac signs, and tea leaves, and the shape a shadow might take. Humans generally take the world info, and apply it to themselves. It's not really a conscience, so to speak, in action, but a form of empathy connected to our own feelings of mortality and loss. 

However, it's not just limited to those tender feelings. Humans also desire what others have, they see themselves in other people's golden shoes. And people are also capable of doing terrible things.

Most of this research has shown that the human brain interprets the world according to a desire for survival and procreation. All of these feelings are designed to curb us away from reckless activity, and toward helpful activity- this includes helping others, because oftentimes, it helps us as well. Humans are a social species, we almost can't survive alone....many even go crazy through lack of contact with others. 

The point is, we don't have a conscience because we have this moral compass somehow created within us. We have a conscience because helping the group intrinsically, and historically contibutes to the survival of the species. It's species preservation to want to help others. There are plenty of instances of this in the wild, it is not a human concept only.



DonaldJTrump said:
The concept of evolution was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing and Christianity non-competitive.

Indeed.



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LadyJasmine said:
Well I see it as fact but it is not 100% proven as that is why

It is called the Theory of Evolution and not Evolution.

I don't think you know what a theory is. It's a model that has been successfully tested. Laws are not models. While both laws and theories are demonstrated through experimentation.

A theory is a tested model, as opposed to a hypothesis which is a testable but untested model.

A law is not a model so much as "A happens when B" statement, such as Mendel's law of inheritence: hereditary units occur in pairs that separate during gamete formation so each receives one member of a pair, and is a part of evolutionary theory.

A fact on the other hand is a verifyable observation: lifeforms can evolve over generations, is a fact.

The theory of evolution explains how lifeforms evolve over generations.



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All you have to do is watch BBC's Planet Earth 2 and you'll see evolution at its greatest.



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HollyGamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, it says that supports a scientific theory. So yes, evolution is a scientific theory with scientific evidence.

which evidence?   to have evidence they need to gather all of the prove for all the missing link of evolution.   

No. You aren't required to have *every* piece of a puzzle to build the entire picture.

You only need to have *enough* pieces of the puzzle in order to build a model and fill the gaps in to build your theory.

Of course, as you get more pieces of the puzzle, the model and theory can and will change.

Rogerioandrade said:

This is exactly what I said before: people prefer to be divisive and to polarize science and religion instead of trying to understand that , although different in essence as human knowledge, both are necessary for mankind in their own way and people can live with both ideas, if they´re smart and tolerant enough for that.

What use does religion have exactly?

It doesn't forward human knowledge with facts, it doesn't cure disease, it doesn't allow us to traverse space and time, it doesn't improve our standard of living, it doesn't give us better yielding crops, it doesn't even make us more moral, it holds back equality and equity.

Although I stand by the fact people are entitled to believe in whatever religion they want... That doesn't mean I see a point in it.

The big difference with Science and Religion though is... Science is built around evidence, Religion is built around belief without evidence.
Science will often contradict things in Religion and vice-versa, but only one has evidence to support itself... And that is science, ergo, the two aren't always compatible.



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SpokenTruth said:
Rogerioandrade said:

In that sense, then should people decide to live either by the social/cultural standards dictated by science and its theories or by the social/cultural  standards dictated by religion and its "myths" ?

I dont think so. I don´t have any problem living with both concepts and ideas and using one integrated to another. Neither any of my close christian, buddish or muslim friends and/or work partners.

This is exactly what I said before: people prefer to be divisive and to polarize science and religion instead of trying to understand that , although different in essence as human knowledge, both are necessary for mankind in their own way and people can live with both ideas, if they´re smart and tolerant enough for that.

I think you've misunderstood me.  I said they are not opposites or enemies for a reason.  They can co-exist.  Tolerance, as you said, is key. When I said they shouldn't be mixed, I didn't mean on personal level, I mean as a combined construct.  When you mix the two as one, you produce a product that weakens them both.

Using the Bible as a scientific guide, point of reference, etc...is not how science works.  Science does not start with a conclusion and then try to find pieces that fit.  Doing it that way means you can make up anything and then find correlations to fit it and call it truth.   For example, the Bible suggests the Earth is 6,000 years old.  If you start with that as your conclusion, you can make up any theory you want for how....but worse, you'd have to ignore voluminous data suggesting otherwise.  And then stop.  You'd never revisit it.  Never learn something new.  A fundamental fact is science is the willingness to accept new data to revise knowledge.  If you "know" the answer already, you close out any new data, any new facts, any new knowledge.

To further get my point, when people first began to try to date the age of the Earth, they didn't pick a value first and then go look for proof.  They developed methods to determine how old things were and then applied those to get an age.  The intent wasn't to prove the Bible wrong but merely to answer the question, "How old is Earth?"  

Science is 'ask question, discover answer'.  Religious based science would be 'answer given, discover correlations'.  Science isn't about finding out what you know (Biblical answers) but what you don't know.  Science isn't about testing to get the answer you want.  It's about getting the answer regardless of the results.  It's a lead by the question policy whereas religious based would be lead by the answer. 

This is why you can't mix them into one product.  You alter the very fundamental concept of scientific inquiry.

That´s not the point.

I´m not saying that I´d use one to prove things on another or vice-versa, and I´m not saying that we should mix them at all.

What I´m just trying to explain is that it´s possible to live with both, and it´s possible to find parallels between them. A simple example is that, in a certain way, the history of the creation in the Bible is just a smaller version of the scientific evolutionary theory. I´m not mixing them, I´m just saying that there are certain ideas that are not opposite at all in both religion and science.



 

Rogerioandrade said:

This is exactly what I said before: people prefer to be divisive and to polarize science and religion instead of trying to understand that , although different in essence as human knowledge, both are necessary for mankind in their own way and people can live with both ideas, if they´re smart and tolerant enough for that.

What use does religion have exactly?

It doesn't forward human knowledge with facts, it doesn't cure disease, it doesn't allow us to traverse space and time, it doesn't improve our standard of living, it doesn't give us better yielding crops, it doesn't even make us more moral, it holds back equality and equity.

Although I stand by the fact people are entitled to believe in whatever religion they want... That doesn't mean I see a point in it.

The big difference with Science and Religion though is... Science is built around evidence, Religion is built around belief without evidence.
Science will often contradict things in Religion and vice-versa, but only one has evidence to support itself... And that is science, ergo, the two aren't always compatible.

Some of those points would be debatable. Religion itself doesn´t hold equality or equity. The use that some people made of religion does - or even other things like politics or economy or even science can hold equality or equity.  It doesn´t cure disease, but it helps patients have a better emotional control during harsh treatments . Religion is a big part of human nature, even if you don´t practice one.

As I said before, it´s easier to be divisive than to search for tolerance and integration. Most religions preach that but people actually don´t practice. I, syself being a Christian, am a huge critic of how many churches handle the principles of christianity, and I know it´s not different with people form other religions.

I really don´t see why this idea is so alien for you guys, since many scientists today are adepts of religion like: Justin Barrett, John Lennox, John Charlton, Mohammad Hossain, Ibn Tufail , Syed Ziaur etc etc etc I´m sure none of them see it as an issue. 

Anyway... that´s how I approach both - science and religion - in my life and I´m glad I could find people around me who agree.