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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Most old games are terrible by todays standards.

m0ney said:
Profrektius said:

I loved Commandos in my school days, I also have recently gone back to it and it has not aged well. As much as I still have nostalgia for it just wouldn't be that enjoyable by someone who doesn't have that nostalgia. Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun, just recently released, a game that is heavily inspired by games like Commandos (could even call it a rip-off), but ultimately improves the experience in every single way and makes it a great game by todays standards. Give Commandos and Shadow Tactics to 100 random people who have played neither and 99 of them will tell you that Shaow Tactics is more enjoyable.

This same thing applies to almost every old game. While sure there won't be as faithful modern games for every old game. The love of those old games are purely nostalgia driven. Sure I can't think of a game that 100% faithfully represents the original Thief games, but you know why? Because those games are not good by todays standards. Their mechanics are outdated and generally not enjoyable. While not the same gameplay mechanics most modern stealth games will give a more enjoyable experience than the original Thief games ever could.

Grim Fandango, while a charming game with a great atmosphere and characters, the gameplay is awful by todays standards. Give that game to someone today and tell them to beat it without a walkthrough with it's moon logic puzzles. They will get frustrated and go play something more enjoyable instead.

I could go on with this for almost every game. There are so few old games that actually are an amazing experience by todays standards and don't have a better modern alternative.

So much wrong in your post.. Commandos is timeless, it looks and plays even better today than in 1998 because at 1080p on a widescreen monitor you see the whole map unlike on a 17 inch CRT monitor in 1998.

How you sh*t on Thief is blasphemy. Thief has the best sound design to this date, which is crucial in stealth. NewDark, fanmade patch, is regularly updated and makes Thief look like a modern game. New fan missions are being made and released almost 20 years after, if you don't believe check ttlg

Grim Fandango gameplay is extremely annoying classic adventure point and click mess and waste of time, that is the only thing I agree with.

Give Commandos and Shadow Tactics to 100 random people who have played neither and 99 of them will tell you that Shaow Tactics is more enjoyable.

Same with Thief. Sure there might be some weirdo who got into gaming only now and would enjoy the original Thief games, but give pretty much any other highly rated modern stealth game and they would enjoy it far, far more than Thief. In fact mostly likely they would find the original theif games not only less enjoyable, but actually not very enjoyable at all.



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kopstudent89 said:
Super Mario World is perfection and still holds up (probably better than many PS1/PS2 era games etc... Weirdly enough SNES games aged much better than pre PS3/Wii era

Totally agree with that. Most PS1 games are hard to play (in visual terms) for me. Even some PS2 disturbs me. But the SNES/Mega Drive games have a charm that aged very well. I think the point is: more realistic games tends to age pretty bad.



MarkkyStorm said:

Totally agree with that. Most PS1 games are hard to play (in visual terms) for me. Even some PS2 disturbs me. But the SNES/Mega Drive games have a charm that aged very well. I think the point is: more realistic games tends to age pretty bad.

Do these games bother you because of how they look in general, or how they look when processed by modern HD TVs and blown on a 1080p screen?



Well, a lot of old games certainly are terrible by today's standards, mostly because they were terrible to begin with. Yet, there are games from every single generation that still hold up very well. For example, most NES and SNES era games that are considered classics are still very much worth playing.

Of course, when we get to the early 3D era you certainly have a point, as back then most developers hadn't really figured out how to make games work in 3D. As a result you'd see a lot of really strange experiments in gameplay and control styles, simply because there was no set precedent on how things like camera controls should be done.



Most of today's games are terrible by old standards.



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An interesting thing to do to judge what people think of different games is too look at the GameStop trade value.

For example, I compared the trade value of original Assassin's Creed for PS3 to Resident Evil 2 for PSOne. In both cases, I'm looking at the "Greatest Hits" edition to parse out any added value they might have as collectors items for certain people. Both games were extremely popular, sold millions of copies, and neither is particularly hard to find.

GameStop will give you $1 for Assassin's Creed and $2.50 for Resident Evil 2.

The marketplace values the game running at 240p with tank controls and pre-rendered backgrounds over the 720p game with more modern game play.

People buy ("prefer") newer games over older games because they're newer and they offer newer things. After a couple of years goes by and the dust settles though, I think you can make a more objective valuation.



specialk said:
Profrektius said:

Okay I don't even have to get into Goldeneye/Perfect Dark and how terribly those have aged. But the other ones are probably some of the better examples of games that hold up.

SMB3/World, can make a decent case, and I'd still argue that if you were to give 100 random gamers who never played Mario, those two and New Super Mario Bros. U, they would enjoy the new one more, and not just because of the better graphics. However, this would be more of a close call and it is evident 2D platformers have not advanced as much other genres have.

Chrono Trigger is the only JRPG that really holds up. It doesn't require grinding, it doesn't drag on, it doesn't have random encounters. It can definitely be as or more enjoyable than modern turn based RPGs for new gamers. While I don't know how well the whole genre of turn based RPGs hold up compared to ones without turn based combat to new gamers without preconcieved notions of what RPGs are, it's incredibly difficult to judge from my perspective, and would be an entirely difficult discussion.

Donkey Kong Country, will be less enjoyable than Tropical Freeze for a new gamer. Has very similar gameplay, while far less variety and less creative level design.

Ocarina of Time, will be less enjoyable than any new Zelda game for a new gamer.

Castlevania Symphony of the Night, makes a good case, but not because of how well it holds up but because these kind of games don't really get made anymore. Somewhat similar to Super Metroid. Still new gamers would enjoy games like Dust: An Elysian Tail, Ori and the Blind Forest and Guacamelee more than those said games, but that might be a lot down to the presentation rather than game design.

Either way TLDR:

The best 3D games do not hold up by todays standards. The best 2D games without archaic mechanics, and without faithful modern sequels do, because more of such games today are only made by indie studies that have trouble competing with the best 2D big budget games of the past.

I completely understand your line of reasoning but I think it places too much weight on the very first impressions of newer gamers.

Would a new gamer prefer Skyward Sword or Ocarina of Time? Maybe Skyward Sword at the very first glace since SS is very pretty and OOT looks dated. But check back in 30 minutes later. In the first few minutes of Ocarina you're already setting out to get a sword and shiled and dive into the first dungeon. 30 minutes into Skyward Sword, you're finding cats, learning how to slice sticks at different angles, and learning about Link's bond with his dumb bird.

As far as Mario goes, I'm pretty sure a lot of kids play and make Mario Maker levels. I still tend to see a lot of SMB3 and SMW levels though. Not only does the look and music from those games hold up extremely well, but they have a few different set of mechancis that allow for different things. The spinning propeller suit isn't inherently better than the cape or the raccoon suit. 

I also completely disagree with regards to the JRPG thing. I think that Final Fantasy 4-9 is categoryically better than Final Fantasy 15. Better characters. More engaging story. More engaging combat. More talented artists working on the game. Better music.

Skyward Sword does have a slow beginning. Still the combat in Ocarina of Time won't be that enjoyable anyway by todays standards anyway. So you would still have a better experience even with the poor start of Skyward Sword. Still compare it to Breath of the Wild, and Ocarina of time seems like a flash game in comparison.

Never got into FF games, and for me I can approach FF15 and enjoy it simply because of the world, atmosphere, and basically presentation. (Sure it's just graphics, but it's still enjoyable if even for that superficial reason). FF7 while might be a better experience if you stick with it, but I just couldn't. The game is too dated, and wasn't enjoyable to play anymore as someone who doesn't have the nostalgia for that. In the end I went away with a better experience from FF15 than from FF7.

And the reason I put so much emphasis on "new gamer" experience is because we having lived through all the bs of the industry have accepted certain game mechanics and design desicions tht are not actually good. They've just been accepted. If said game releases with some of those mechanics now it might get called out on it more often, so we are seeing a shift of game design. However, looking back at games, no one criticises those things in retrospect. They were accepted at the time, but it doesn't mean they were good. But a new gamer, wouldn't have those preconvieved notions, and wouldn't accept bs game design, and would be able to judge more objectively. I guess I am trying to highlight how much the industry has progressed and improved if in a slightly unorthodox way.



spemanig said:
Most new games are terrible by today's standards.

Somebody give this guy a medal.



Yeah, that may be true. Though it could be that old games that seem bad today perhaps were never that good to begin with. There are some games that while at the time were really great at the time, replaying them again shows they weren't as perfect as we remember that, but there are old games that I still find to be excellent to this day.

Also, do you have any examples of this, OP?



 

              

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Maybe it's nostalgia for me, and i'm blind, but I find myself going back every month to playing Ps1/ps2 RPGS. After I play PS4 rpgs, and i'm like "This game has terrible narrative/mechanics/characters. Where as a game like Chrono trigger/Persona/DQ/FF1 - 9 I find myself playing these games constantly to this day. Maybe i'm just nostalgia blind like you say though.



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