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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump revokes Obama guidelines on transgender bathrooms

VGPolyglot said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

You somehow did not really comment on the other issues I brought up?

So, what about professional sports? How do you solve the obvious issue that allowing transgender people born as men would give them an unfair advantage in most sports if they could simply choose which gender they play for? How do you fight the obvious potential for abuse that a man could simply claim to be a transgender in order to play for the women's team in professional sports? Or, if completely eliminating gender segration as you suggest, it would obviously be illegal to have female leagues in sports, there could only be unisex leagues - which would in practice result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Is that such a good idea?

And what about changing rooms and shower rooms in swimming pools, gyms etc.? If the girls are hot, I'm sure most men wouldn't mind freely choosing the changing and shower rooms - or having unisex changing and shower rooms as a necessary result of eleliminating all gender segregation. But I severely doubt most women would be happy about that...

Well, I'd support unisex leagues too. And as I said, I'd generally be fine with unisex change rooms, but sexism is still a big problem in our societies so it is not feasible at the moment.

Mmmh, Still feels like you're simply avoiding the questions about some the issues I'm talking about.

When it comes to sports for example, hardly anyone would have a problem with the general existance of unisex leagues - but if you seriously wanted to eliminate gender segretation, ONLY unisex leagues would obviously be allowed. And in almost all sports, there are hardly any women among the world's absolute top players (which is actually interesting, because that even holds true for sports like darts or chess where men do not even have any physical advantage). So completely eliminating gender segregation in sports would practically result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Not because they would be forbidden from participating, but because extremely few women would be able to compete with the top players.



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Ka-pi96 said:
MarkkyStorm said:

Sexism wouldn't affect that much in sports. Only the best are choosen and there are sports where women tend to be as good or even better than man. But not in all of them. And that's the problem. What would hurt the participation of women will be the natural differences between the two genders. Not what people think of women participating in this or that sport.

As of changing/shower, there's no mindchanging policy that would prevent straight men for being attracted to women and straight women attracted to men. That's our nature. And that attraction walks along with the embarassment around seeing another people naked, specially people from another gender.  If we could use the same bathrooms, same shower rooms, same changing rooms and stuff, then there would be no need for clothes. Let everybody walk naked everywhere and that's about it.

Oh I expect it would! You say the best are chosen which is true, but that will be the issue since most of the time men will be the best, and not by a small margin either. So when none of the good teams hire women and the ones that do get hired aren't paid anywhere near as much (because they're not as good) the complaints that would generate...

Maybe I had not expressed myself very well. Saying Neymar is better than my girlfriend in soccer is not sexism. Picking the best is not sexism. Sexism is a prejudiced form we perceive things. Like thinking that a woman cannot drive just because she's a woman. That is sexism and that's not true at all. But realizing Sharapova plays better than me (I love to play tennis) isn't sexism. It's just true. Of course she would get higher payment. And if we only have a unisex football league, for example, of course that will be more men than women. That's why I'm totally against unified leagues. It wouldn't work not because of sexism, not because a prejudiced form of view, it wouldn't work because of the natural differences between genders. Same reason why a transgender man shouldn't compete with a woman, because in biological terms, he's still a man and that would be unfair.



ArnoldRimmer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, I'd support unisex leagues too. And as I said, I'd generally be fine with unisex change rooms, but sexism is still a big problem in our societies so it is not feasible at the moment.

Mmmh, Still feels like you're simply avoiding the questions about some the issues I'm talking about.

When it comes to sports for example, hardly anyone would have a problem with the general existance of unisex leagues - but if you seriously wanted to eliminate gender segretation, ONLY unisex leagues would obviously be allowed. And in almost all sports, there are hardly any women among the world's absolute top players (which is actually interesting, because that even holds true for sports like darts or chess where men do not even have any physical advantage). So completely eliminating gender segregation in sports would practically result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Not because they would be forbidden from participating, but because extremely few women would be able to compete with the top players.

That.



MarkkyStorm said:
shikamaru317 said:

I simply see too much room for abuse there. Any pervs could easily claim they're trans just so they can get into the opposite restroom to try and get a peek, or worse. 

Is that too hard for you guys to understand?

I would never feel safe with my daugher going to a bathroom where any men could enter just for claiming that he's transexual. And if he's not? Will be a supervisor in every bathroom to guarantee who is trans and who is not? Wouldn't that be more embarassment to trans people?

Also, that's not a fucking demonstration of hate over transexuals, that's not something to make them feel bad, it's just a simple fucking bathroom. If you have a dick, you go to men's bathroom. If you don't have, then you can go to the ladies room. SImples as that. It should be that easy. Sincerely, I get disappointed everytime I see an irrelevant question like that turning into something big. IT'S JUST A BATHROOM.

It's good to see one or two people have an understanding of the problem.

 

Personally, I don't really have a problem with true trans people using the washroom of the gender they have transed to.  The problem is in the wording, saying a person can use whatever washroom they "feel" is appropriate.   Especially in schools with potentially vulnerable children.

 

I went to a large school and there were very few people who were trans then, or later in life. There were, however, quite a few sexually deviant boys who would happily say they feel like a female to gain access to the female washroom.  Saying you "feel" like a different gender shouldn't be enough.  You should have to be actually living as your new gender.

 

And obviously private washrooms are the best option for everyone, but barring that female washrooms should always be a place that is secure from weirdo males.



MarkkyStorm said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, heterosexual people can be attracted to the other sex, but people can control their urges. Also, in regards to clothes, they exist to protect from the weather, not to hide genitals.

You're ignoring the most important thing. I never said anything about urges. I'm talking about being embarassed. Just it.

If clothes just exist to protect from the weather, why use bikinis at all in the beach? If is just for the weather, why use in closed rooms with thermostats controlling the temperature?

1. The Sun is dangerous to the skin, so there is a valid reason to where something at the beach. In regards to bikinis, yes it doesn't really protect from the Sun, but bikinis haven't even been around for 100 years.

2. There's also the problem with sanitation. I guess that you could be in the house with no clothes, but with nothing in between say the furniture and the genitals, it is not good for sanitary reasons.



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I seem to recall reading an article a year or so back about the transgenders in bathrooms issue and the fear of predators. Turns out a study showed people were more likely to be sexually assaulted by a Republican politician than they were to be assaulted by a transgender individual.

Bathroom stalls are like bedrooms to me. If it isn't happening in mine I don't care who is in it or what they are doing.



MarkkyStorm said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, heterosexual people can be attracted to the other sex, but people can control their urges. Also, in regards to clothes, they exist to protect from the weather, not to hide genitals.

If clothes just exist to protect from the weather, why use bikinis at all in the beach? If is just for the weather, why use in closed rooms with thermostats controlling the temperature?

Damn, that's exactly the example I wanted to give in response.

VGPolyglot, I'm sure you actually know perfectly well that protection from the weather is far from being the only purpose clothes have. Hiding the genitals is a mayor purpose, probably even more important than protection from weather. Just remember that the issue of being naked is so important to humans that it's a major topic already in the first book of the bible.

And of course, clothes also serve a number of other purposes as well.

But hey, if you want to convince all women out there that it's just completely irrational to wear any clothes in summer, be sure that I'm completely supportive!



ArnoldRimmer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, I'd support unisex leagues too. And as I said, I'd generally be fine with unisex change rooms, but sexism is still a big problem in our societies so it is not feasible at the moment.

Mmmh, Still feels like you're simply avoiding the questions about some the issues I'm talking about.

When it comes to sports for example, hardly anyone would have a problem with the general existance of unisex leagues - but if you seriously wanted to eliminate gender segretation, ONLY unisex leagues would obviously be allowed. And in almost all sports, there are hardly any women among the world's absolute top players (which is actually interesting, because that even holds true for sports like darts or chess where men do not even have any physical advantage). So completely eliminating gender segregation in sports would practically result in women more or less being excluded from professional sports. Not because they would be forbidden from participating, but because extremely few women would be able to compete with the top players.

Women have physical disadvantages and advantages, so some sports would result in women doing better probably, and others would result in them being worse. At least giving them a chance would be better then only being able to particpate in sports which are largely overshadowed by the male counterparts.



Ka-pi96 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Why?

Because I don't think people should be able to walk in whichever bathroom they want just because they "feel" a certain way. Bathrooms (and certain other places) are separated by gender for a reason and "feelings" don't change those reasons.

You mean bathrooms are seperated by sex. Gender is all about identity, sex is about the biology.



SpokenTruth said:

People have been slaughtered for centuries because of that kind of inability to open your mind.

that was the law back then and has nothing to do with open mindedness.



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