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Locked: Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Forums - Politics Discussion - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Goatseye said:
irstupid said:

What are you talking about. Did you not get my point. Here let me state it as simple as I can.

1. FoxNews comes out with a story saying crime is rising in Sweeden due to immigration (Could be true, could be BS. Doesn't matter)

2. Trump see said report and during his speech in Florida brings it up.

3. Media and Sweedes get pissed and start kicking and screaming about Trump with hundreds of articles bashing Trump

4. Next day some cops go to arrest an immigrant and riots break out

5. It now looks like Trump was speaking truth and a bunch of articles out now about that

Let's say FoxNews report was completely a lie. This rioting happening the day after Trumps speech basically make that fact irrelivent. Now the only thing that matters in peopels minds are that Trump said Sweeden is rife with immigrant problems and these riots prove it.

1- So you don't care about the veracity of news as long as it aligns with your notion of truth, right?

2- A leader of a nation like the US isn't supposed bring up stuff up like a video game forum dweller does and thinks there'll be no consequence. And you should expect better from someone in that position.

3- Who wouldn't get pissed off when someone makes up stuff about them? It's human nature, I'm sensing political correctness here.

4- Are you sure that's what happened? Can you provide a link to your story?

5- How can Trump be speaking truth if he doesn't even fact check his source? He was sh*t slinging to the wall to see what sticks. Like : Bowling Green, Electoral College votes, The crowd size of his inauguration, Lies about his staff colluding with Russians, etc...

If you side with Fox News on their claim that rise in crime is linked to migration in "Sweeden", post that chart to back you and Fox news. Still waiting...

It's so obvious that crime in Sweden is linked to migration. The overrepresentation of foreigners commiting violence compared wwith ethnic Swedes is overwhelming. When it comes to rape, assault and murder it's a factor of 5-10. Yes, people with foreign background are 5-10 more likely than ethnic Swedes to commit the most serious forms of crimes, and yet the population has been brainwashed to believe its about equal.

The data is hard to find though because our state is covering it up (no official data since 2005 in order to hide it).

I'm more interested in what your conclusion would be if it became clear to you that crime (in Sweden) is heavily caused by immigration. What would be your analysis?

Would it be the socialist analysis akin to "well that has to mean that marginalization and discrimination against immigrants is even larger than we thought! These people are victims!".



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VGPolyglot said:
GribbleGrunger said:

Oh my good God. These riots are taking place because the government are covering it up, the media aren't reporting it clearly and the populous are still in denial. They're running amock just because they can. Wake up.

Sure, like people in a foreign country, where they could risk being deported, would just riot for the fun of it.

Yes, migrants/refugees can be assholes, too. You realize Sweden provides a shit ton of support for these people, right? And many Swedish people refuse to even think about the migrant problem, increasing rape, assault, and murder cases, giving them the benefit of doubt. Most are just good people. Definitely naive, but good intentioned. But, when you import a ton of people without proper vetting, this is what happens. 

@OP

Really interesting. Just today I was listening to a radio program where they had a guy on who made a documentary about this. He actually got his ass beat up just for filming in a "no go zone." He had interviewed many people in Sweden who were basically just ignoring the problem, saying it was racist to even suggest there may even be a problem. It also focused on how the government in Sweden was just ignoring it, as well.

Even if Trump misspoke about when the previous attacks have happened, maybe at least now people will focus on the problem.



Slimebeast said:
Goatseye said:

1- So you don't care about the veracity of news as long as it aligns with your notion of truth, right?

2- A leader of a nation like the US isn't supposed bring up stuff up like a video game forum dweller does and thinks there'll be no consequence. And you should expect better from someone in that position.

3- Who wouldn't get pissed off when someone makes up stuff about them? It's human nature, I'm sensing political correctness here.

4- Are you sure that's what happened? Can you provide a link to your story?

5- How can Trump be speaking truth if he doesn't even fact check his source? He was sh*t slinging to the wall to see what sticks. Like : Bowling Green, Electoral College votes, The crowd size of his inauguration, Lies about his staff colluding with Russians, etc...

If you side with Fox News on their claim that rise in crime is linked to migration in "Sweeden", post that chart to back you and Fox news. Still waiting...

It's so obvious that crime in Sweden is linked to migration. The overrepresentation of foreigners commiting violence compared wwith ethnic Swedes is overwhelming. When it comes to rape, assault and murder it's a factor of 5-10. Yes, people with foreign background are 5-10 more likely than ethnic Swedes to commit the most serious forms of crimes, and yet the population has been brainwashed to believe its about equal.

The data is hard to find though because our state is covering it up (no official data since 2005 in order to hide it).

I'm more interested in what your conclusion would be if it became clear to you that crime (in Sweden) is heavily caused by immigration. What would be your analysis?

Would it be the socialist analysis akin to "well that has to mean that marginalization and discrimination against immigrants is even larger than we thought! These people are victims!".

So there is no basis to your claim? Got it.

By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents like Monday night's, which have taken place in highly segregated neighbourhoods.

The newspaper Dagens Nyheter analysed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents.

That has done little to assuage the perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners are culpable for the crime that does happen.

A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that "refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups."

I'm a skeptic person Slime, I work with palpable pieces of information and not emotional hunches. I condemn violence and I am not selective on it.
And based on our argument once about French national team, your claims get more scrutinized in my eyes.


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irstupid said:

 

Mummelmann said:

This has happened many times before here, also in Tensta and Husby. Riots in this part of the city are quite common and burning cars are more or less a daily occurrence. There's a fairly shady area close to where I work as well, when I first started in late 2013, there would be 1-2 burned out cars on the parking lot outside the mall after every weekend.

 

Edit; no one was killed but two were injured, one was a journalist who was jumped by about 12-15 men. Lots of journalists have been attacked in this part of the city. It becomes a self fulfilling statement when people say that people here are violent, and the local citizens are outraged and the trash talking and resort to violence... They have also been know to call the police on fake missions so they can ambush them with rocks and even a hand grenade last year, destroying ambulances is also quite common in this area and ambulances are adviced to request a police escort.

Isn't that the very thing Trump said. He was talking about a FoxNews report they did the night before or something that was talking about how Sweeden is now seeing what you described above and more, such as rapes, ect due to the immigrations.

The media does a whole nit picking of his wording to try and paint what he said as him saying there was a terrorist attack the night before, to descredit him, draw aways the peoples attention from a problem, ect.

All this rioting does is add some credence to what Trump was saying. Immigrants are not mixing well with Sweeden and crime is getting out of hand.

Technically, it's not really true that "immigrants aren't mixing well with the Swedes", but certain groups in certain areas have pretty major issues. Overall, Sweden has a large immigrant population that contributes to society, educate themselves and work hard. The problem arises when more positive influences move away from areas that are troubled, and the more chaotic minded remain, property value sinks, unemployment shoots into the sky and school attendance drops dramatically. The problem is that the right is calling foreigners animals and claiming that other "races" are simply not civilized while the left is claiming that it's the police that is to blame for incidents like this and that everyone is blowing things out of proportion and then call even people who make rational criticism racists as a be-all and end-all of discussion. In the middle of this fray; the real victims are left unattended, these are the people who have their shops busted, the mosques blown up (yes, that happened not to long ago in Stockholm) and their kids robbed of cellphones and cash on their way to school, the ones who live in these areas and are terrorized by gangs of kids who should be in school, people who try their best but aren't being heard because the inner city folks are busy assigning blame and have long since forgotten how to actually solve problems, let alone make compromises.

Over half of my colleagues at work are immigrants, either first or second generation and all of them are awesome, and most immigrants are great. But the chasm between "us and them" is growing larger by the year, and where it's bad, it's really bad, no matter how some try to disguise it or refuse to talk about it. One of the main issues here is that a racist party has more or less hijacked the debate on immigration and others are afraid to touch the subject and be labelled as racists or fascists, and the resistance towards any and all arguments pointing to negatives of immigration, and especially poor integration, becomes massive when it is perceived to connect with those who are real racists. The biggest critics of the poor integration in the country that I've ever met are immigrants themselves.

High crime rates are tied to poverty, low employment, low value areas with little development incentive and low school attendance, it doesn't matter what "race" you are. But, regardless of the mechanics behind high crime rates; it's still a problem that needs to be adressed and not something to be ignored, as has been the case here for many years. Pairing this with an utterly despicable police chief and constant political reforms pulling in different directions doesn't exactly help either.

 

Puppyroach said:
Let's calm down now. It's not rioting in Sweden, it was an incident in Rinkeby, a suburb to Stockholm where around 30 people got angry because of a protest and some of them (far from all) got violent. One idiot lit a fire and the police were forced to shoot one shot. Thos happens around 20 times each year and fatalities because of police shooting happens around two times a year. So I think some perspective is needed here :).

One idiot lit a fire? There were almost a dozen cars burning and several shops and restaurants had windows smashed and a couple were reportedly plundered as well, so the extent of this incident is somewhat more than you make it out to be. But I agree that calling it riots is a stretch though. It's still a serious incident, and you should perhaps inform people that the angry mob started peppering the police with stones and other objects in response to the police arresting a person wanted for drug related crimes at a subway station, it was not in response to a protest, where did you hear this? I live pretty close to this area (in Täby) and police told the media right away that the incident began when they were arresting an individual at the Rinkeby subway station, this information was readily availabe to anyone with an internet connection and half-decent news sources, heck; even poor news sources had this info from the start.

There was an incident just like this only nine days prior as well, also at Rinkeby, when police responded to a call they were ambushed by 20-30 people throwing bottles and rocks at them. And let's not forget the incident with the hand grenade last year, or the molotov cocktails that were thrown at the police in Vårberg the same year, these incidents are common, as you even state yourself, isn't that in itself worrying you at all? That amazes me.

Look; people overstate some things, sure, but you shouldn't downplay this either or make appologies for hooligans of any form or social standings, when an angry mob show up and attack police officers for arresting criminals, that's a very serious issue. And then people make claims that "the city area has more crime", which is true in sheer number, but it's mostly druggies slugging it out in parks and town squares, people busted with small amount of narcotics on them, shoplifting, homeless people being disorderly, kids doing cocaine at fancy clubs or Kent Ekeroth slapping people, most of the inner city crime is peanuts compared to the stabbings, shootings, destruction of property and fires and the constant assaults on police and even ambulance personel out in the suburbs. When was the last time you heard about someone destroying an ambulance in service in the inner city or showing up 20-30 to attack the police making arrests? I agree that we shouldn't sensationalize things, but let's not gloss it over either, this is what Swedes usually do but it doesn't solve any problems.



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Goatseye said:
Slimebeast said:

It's so obvious that crime in Sweden is linked to migration. The overrepresentation of foreigners commiting violence compared wwith ethnic Swedes is overwhelming. When it comes to rape, assault and murder it's a factor of 5-10. Yes, people with foreign background are 5-10 more likely than ethnic Swedes to commit the most serious forms of crimes, and yet the population has been brainwashed to believe its about equal.

The data is hard to find though because our state is covering it up (no official data since 2005 in order to hide it).

I'm more interested in what your conclusion would be if it became clear to you that crime (in Sweden) is heavily caused by immigration. What would be your analysis?

Would it be the socialist analysis akin to "well that has to mean that marginalization and discrimination against immigrants is even larger than we thought! These people are victims!".

So there is no basis to your claim? Got it.

By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents like Monday night's, which have taken place in highly segregated neighbourhoods.

The newspaper Dagens Nyheter analysed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents.

That has done little to assuage the perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners are culpable for the crime that does happen.

A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that "refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups."

I'm a skeptic person Slime, I work with palpable pieces of information and not emotional hunches. I condemn violence and I am not selective on it.
And based on our argument once about French national team, your claims get more scrutinized in my eyes.

"came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents."
But what's the definition of a refugee in that context?
1% of all crimes were commited by newly arrived asylum seeker, people who hardly aren't even registered in the country yet. It's totally ignoring the other 1.5 million refugees here that came in the last three decades and their offspring. If those were counted you'd get 50% or so.

Okay I found a source in English:

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/sweden-migrants-responsible-for-95-of-all-crimes-overrepresented-by-430/

Which are based on official statistics from 2005, mind you that they're extrapolated into reflecting the population makeup in 2015.



Goatseye said:
Slimebeast said:

It's so obvious that crime in Sweden is linked to migration. The overrepresentation of foreigners commiting violence compared wwith ethnic Swedes is overwhelming. When it comes to rape, assault and murder it's a factor of 5-10. Yes, people with foreign background are 5-10 more likely than ethnic Swedes to commit the most serious forms of crimes, and yet the population has been brainwashed to believe its about equal.

The data is hard to find though because our state is covering it up (no official data since 2005 in order to hide it).

I'm more interested in what your conclusion would be if it became clear to you that crime (in Sweden) is heavily caused by immigration. What would be your analysis?

Would it be the socialist analysis akin to "well that has to mean that marginalization and discrimination against immigrants is even larger than we thought! These people are victims!".

So there is no basis to your claim? Got it.

By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents like Monday night's, which have taken place in highly segregated neighbourhoods.

The newspaper Dagens Nyheter analysed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents.

That has done little to assuage the perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners are culpable for the crime that does happen.

A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that "refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups."

I'm a skeptic person Slime, I work with palpable pieces of information and not emotional hunches. I condemn violence and I am not selective on it.
And based on our argument once about French national team, your claims get more scrutinized in my eyes.

"came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents."
But what's the definition of a refugee in that context?
1% of all crimes were commited by newly arrived asylum seeker, people who hardly aren't even registered in the country yet. It's totally ignoring the other 1.5 million refugees here that came in the last three decades and their offspring. If those were counted you'd get 50% or so.

Okay I found a source in English:

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/sweden-migrants-responsible-for-95-of-all-crimes-overrepresented-by-430/

Which are based on official statistics from 2005, mind you that they're extrapolated into reflecting the population makeup in 2015.
(please ignore the sensationalist and false claim of "95%" in the headline, apparently it's an islamo-critic site that misinterprets some of the numbers they translated and linked to)



Mummelmann said:
irstupid said:

 

Isn't that the very thing Trump said. He was talking about a FoxNews report they did the night before or something that was talking about how Sweeden is now seeing what you described above and more, such as rapes, ect due to the immigrations.

The media does a whole nit picking of his wording to try and paint what he said as him saying there was a terrorist attack the night before, to descredit him, draw aways the peoples attention from a problem, ect.

All this rioting does is add some credence to what Trump was saying. Immigrants are not mixing well with Sweeden and crime is getting out of hand.

 

Over half of my colleagues at work are immigrants, either first or second generation and all of them are awesome, and most immigrants are great. But the chasm between "us and them" is growing larger by the year, and where it's bad, it's really bad, no matter how some try to disguise it or refuse to talk about it. One of the main issues here is that a racist party has more or less hijacked the debate on immigration and others are afraid to touch the subject and be labelled as racists or fascists, and the resistance towards any and all arguments pointing to negatives of immigration, and especially poor integration, becomes massive when it is perceived to connect with those who are real racists. The biggest critics of the poor integration in the country that I've ever met are immigrants themselves.

High crime rates are tied to poverty, low employment, low value areas with little development incentive and low school attendance, it doesn't matter what "race" you are. But, regardless of the mechanics behind high crime rates; it's still a problem that needs to be adressed and not something to be ignored, as has been the case here for many years. Pairing this with an utterly despicable police chief and constant political reforms pulling in different directions doesn't exactly help either.

Oh com'on. Crime is tied to poverty and unemployment to a degree, but it's also tied to culture and values in a society or among sub-groups of people, or else you would never see the extreme discrepancies between people with a Middle Eastern background (5-10 times more prone to violent crime than ethnic Swedes) and East Asian background (who commit clearly less violent crime than native Swedes).

And to call Sweden democrats a "racist" party, geez. With that attitude why don't you go back to Norway dude. You write an excellent post filled with the exact same arguments that are only brought up by the Sweden democrats into the political discourse and yet you generalize very heavily and reward them with the racist label.



Slimebeast said:
Goatseye said:

So there is no basis to your claim? Got it.

By and large, integration has been a success story there, save for incidents like Monday night's, which have taken place in highly segregated neighbourhoods.

The newspaper Dagens Nyheter analysed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents.

That has done little to assuage the perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners are culpable for the crime that does happen.

A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that "refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups."

I'm a skeptic person Slime, I work with palpable pieces of information and not emotional hunches. I condemn violence and I am not selective on it.
And based on our argument once about French national team, your claims get more scrutinized in my eyes.

"came to the conclusion that refugees were responsible for only 1 per cent of all incidents."
But what's the definition of a refugee in that context?
1% of all crimes were commited by newly arrived asylum seeker, people who hardly aren't even registered in the country yet. It's totally ignoring the other 1.5 million refugees here that came in the last three decades and their offspring. If those were counted you'd get 50% or so.

Okay I found a source in English:

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/08/21/sweden-migrants-responsible-for-95-of-all-crimes-overrepresented-by-430/

Which are based on official statistics from 2005, mind you that they're extrapolated into reflecting the population makeup in 2015.
(please ignore the sensationalist and false claim of "95%" in the headline, apparently it's an islamo-critic site that misinterprets some of the numbers they translated and linked to)

I'm all for you to prove me wrong with factual statistics.



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