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Forums - Politics Discussion - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Peh said:
Slimebeast said:

I never claimed that the children commit as much crime as their immigrants parents. I only know that studies (including this one) shows that the children commit more crime than ethnic Swedes.

And look at the second sentence you quoted: nothing indicates that the children display a higher tendency than the generation of their parents. WTF, who ever claimed that?? It's irrelevant.

The study clearly shows that the children of immigrants commit considerably more crime than ethnic Swedes.

PAGE 5 !!!

Slimebeast said: "You see, the offspring largely inherit the behaviour of their parents."

You are a liar!

You are dishonest!

That's why you are so full of bullshit and I called you out on it. And now you tell me, you never implied that?

And then you send me a source with "Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children".

What's wwrong with your reading comprehension?

Yes, it's true that the offspring largely (not fully, but I never made such claim because I know my facts) inherits the behaviour of their parents. The criminal behaviour of children of immigrants in that study is closer to the criminal activity of their parents than it is to the criminal activity of ethnic Swedes.



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Peh said:

You missed the whole point of what I am arguing about with Slimebeast.

It's about the children of immigrants. Re-read it again, please.

Well there's this part in the 2005 report:

”CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS” ARE MORE COMMONLY REGISTERED FOR TYPICAL YOUTH CRIMES

On the whole, those born in Sweden to at least one overseas born parent assume an ’in-between’ position as regards the question of being suspected of criminal offences. It is less common for members of this group to be suspected in connection with various types of crime than it is for those who were themselves born overseas, but it is more common than among persons born in Sweden to two Swedish born parents. There are however certain types of offences that are more common within this group than they are in  73 either of the other two groups. These offence types primarily involve categories of crime where a large proportion of the offences are generally committed by youths (irrespective of background). These involve car thefts, vandalism, drunken driving, drug offences including offences that only involve personal consumption, and crimes against the Weapons Act (vapenlagen) and the Knives Act (knivförbudslagen).

You can find this summary on Page 72. The findings are more in between what you and Slimebeast are claiming.



VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:

Exactly. And worth noticing is that children of immigrants are counted as Swedes in that data.

So if we would look at today, the year 2017, and only count ethnic Swedes they probably make up only 1/4 of long-term inmates.

Going from almost 50% to 25% in 8 years? I doubt that.

No, you totally missunderstood.

The 47% of long term prisoners between 1997 and 2009 were "swedish", but if we exclude the children of immigrants from those 47%, I would estimate we are down at 30-35%.

And the data sample is an average between 1997 - 2009, the year 2003 being the middle point, which means it's 14 years from today. And in those 14 years the total population with immigrant background in Sweden has risen by around 1 million people, from roughly 1.5 million to 2.5 million, which is an increase by over 50%. Meanwhile the number of ethnic Swedes has been stable.

1/4 is a conservative estimation, it's most likely even less.



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

Going from almost 50% to 25% in 8 years? I doubt that.

No, you totally missunderstood.

The 47% of long term prisoners between 1997 and 2009 were "swedish", but if we exclude the children of immigrants from those 47%, I would estimate we are down at 30-35%.

And the data sample is an average between 1997 - 2009, the year 2003 being the middle point, which means it's 14 years from today. And in those 14 years the total population with immigrant background in Sweden has risen by around 1 million people, from roughly 1.5 million to 2.5 million, which is an increase by over 50%.

No, it said that 47% are Swedes, and additional 13% were people that became citizens. It does not say that 13% of the 47% are children of immigrants.



Slimebeast said:
Peh said:

PAGE 5 !!!

Slimebeast said: "You see, the offspring largely inherit the behaviour of their parents."

You are a liar!

You are dishonest!

That's why you are so full of bullshit and I called you out on it. And now you tell me, you never implied that?

And then you send me a source with "Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children".

What's wwrong with your reading comprehension?

Yes, it's true that the offspring largely (not fully, but I never made such claim because I know my facts) inherits the behaviour of their parents. The criminal behaviour of children of immigrants in that study is closer to the criminal activity of their parents than it is to the criminal activity of ethnic Swedes.

Ask that yourself:

In conclusion we can say that criminality amongst the children of immigrants
is, to a certain extent, exaggerated.
The supposition that the children of immigrants
are very prone to commit crime is unfounded, with the exception of certain
limited groups
. These groups are highly visible and contribute to a distorted
picture ofthe actual situation
. However, it is important to follow-up the continued
development of criminality amongst the children of immigrants. If residential
segregation is allowed to continue at the same time as more and more children
ofimmigrants are excluded from the labour market, there is a real risk that
criminality will increase in the long-term within this population group.

Do you even know what a claim is? Are you kidding me?

You said: "Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world. You see, the offspring largely inherit the behaviour of their parents."
That's a claim by you where I asked for proof that the offspring largely inherint the behaviour of their parents. Whereas you replied in a condescending way:

"You believe there are no sources to backup such a basic, elementary fact in behaviour biology? LOL "

You provided NONE!

Now you spinning it around like you never made that claim.



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VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:

No, you totally missunderstood.

The 47% of long term prisoners between 1997 and 2009 were "swedish", but if we exclude the children of immigrants from those 47%, I would estimate we are down at 30-35%.

And the data sample is an average between 1997 - 2009, the year 2003 being the middle point, which means it's 14 years from today. And in those 14 years the total population with immigrant background in Sweden has risen by around 1 million people, from roughly 1.5 million to 2.5 million, which is an increase by over 50%.

No, it said that 47% are Swedes, and additional 13% were people that became citizens. It does not say that 13% of the 47% are children of immigrants.

No.

47% are "Swedes"

13% are immigrants with a Swedish passport (citizenship)

40% are immigrants without a Swedish passport.
-------
= 100% long term inmates.

So where are the children of immigrants?? They're counted in the 47%.



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

No, it said that 47% are Swedes, and additional 13% were people that became citizens. It does not say that 13% of the 47% are children of immigrants.

No.

47% are "Swedes"

13% are immigrants with a Swedish passport (citizenship)

40% are immigrants without a Swedish passport.
-------
= 100% long term inmates.

So where are the children of immigrants?? They're counted in the 47%.

Why do you put quotation marks in there? It's the Swedish government/court that determines whether their nationality is a Swede, much in the same way that they determine who is a criminal. If we can dispute that they're Swedes, then we can also dispute that they're criminals.



Aura7541 said:
Peh said:

You missed the whole point of what I am arguing about with Slimebeast.

It's about the children of immigrants. Re-read it again, please.

Well there's this part in the 2005 report:

”CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS” ARE MORE COMMONLY REGISTERED FOR TYPICAL YOUTH CRIMES

On the whole, those born in Sweden to at least one overseas born parent assume an ’in-between’ position as regards the question of being suspected of criminal offences. It is less common for members of this group to be suspected in connection with various types of crime than it is for those who were themselves born overseas, but it is more common than among persons born in Sweden to two Swedish born parents. There are however certain types of offences that are more common within this group than they are in  73 either of the other two groups. These offence types primarily involve categories of crime where a large proportion of the offences are generally committed by youths (irrespective of background). These involve car thefts, vandalism, drunken driving, drug offences including offences that only involve personal consumption, and crimes against the Weapons Act (vapenlagen) and the Knives Act (knivförbudslagen).

You can find this summary on Page 72. The findings are more in between what you and Slimebeast are claiming.

I'm not making the claim. I don't agree with Slimebeast's claim that the children of immigrants will be as criminal as their parents. As his source says, that the children of immigrants are less open to criminal activities. Meaning, they do not "largerly inherit" their parents behaviour in the spoken context of criminal activity. Like I already stated: "Nothing indicates that these children display a clearly higher tendency towards crime participation than the generation of their parents. On the contrary."



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Peh said:
Slimebeast said:

What's wwrong with your reading comprehension?

Yes, it's true that the offspring largely (not fully, but I never made such claim because I know my facts) inherits the behaviour of their parents. The criminal behaviour of children of immigrants in that study is closer to the criminal activity of their parents than it is to the criminal activity of ethnic Swedes.

Ask that yourself:

In conclusion we can say that criminality amongst the children of immigrants
is, to a certain extent, exaggerated.
The supposition that the children of immigrants
are very prone to commit crime is unfounded, with the exception of certain
limited groups
. These groups are highly visible and contribute to a distorted
picture ofthe actual situation
. However, it is important to follow-up the continued
development of criminality amongst the children of immigrants. If residential
segregation is allowed to continue at the same time as more and more children
ofimmigrants are excluded from the labour market, there is a real risk that
criminality will increase in the long-term within this population group.

Do you even know what a claim is? Are you kidding me?

You said: "Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world. You see, the offspring largely inherit the behaviour of their parents."
That's a claim by you where I asked for proof that the offspring largely inherint the behaviour of their parents. Whereas you replied in a condescending way:

"You believe there are no sources to backup such a basic, elementary fact in behaviour biology? LOL "

You provided NONE!

Now you spinning it around like you never made that claim.

Do you know what a "conclusion" of a scientific study is? It's a section where ths writer is free to interpret and speculate about his findings. This is in all scientific studies.

You are citing from it, and that conclusion is worded in relation to a strawman that never existed.

"to a certain extent, exaggerated. " exaggerated by whom exactly? It doesn't say.

"very prone" according to whom? It doesn't say.

These are not fact statements, they're value statements. You have to understand that the authors are leftists who's interest it is to downplay the findings.

I already told you, the study proves that children of immigrants (what I called offspring) are clearly overrepresented versus ethnic Swedes.

But you also forget what I claimed in the sentence by me that you originally quoted, it was me addressing VGPolygot where he questioned that "immigrant offsrping" is a target of study in crime science. I have clearly demonstrated that it is in fact a relevant object to analyze.