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Forums - Politics Discussion - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Peh said:
Aura7541 said:

You know, there's an English summary at the end of that study.....

No, I didn't know and didn't expected to be a english summary there. But thanks for the reminder, went through with it and it condradicts what Slimebeast is claiming. Thanks for the tip.

It actually doesn't...

I don't know Swedish, but I am able to interpret the quantitative data.

For instance, Page 52 on Brå's 1996 report shows the per capita (per 1000) crimerate according to ethnicity. You can see that criminality among immigrants from Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Greece, and Japan is low. Compare that to the criminality among immigrants from Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Tunisia, etc., it's much much higher. The study also concluded that immigrants are overrepresented in crimes over native Swedes by about 2.1 times.

In Brå's 2005 report, overrepresentation increased from 2.1x to 2.5x. On Page 9, the report echoes what Brå found in its 1996 report in that criminality among immigrant varies by country. Asians, Europeans, and Americans have the lowest registered crime. Those in the MENA, on the other hand, are overrepresented.

You can see the ones in red are "Rest of Africa", "North Africa", "West Asia", and "East Africa".

The study even adjusted for socioeconomic factors and conluded on Page 21, that overrepresention still remained among immigrants. It also conluded on Page 23 that although discrimmination might have played a role, it only contributes a small one.

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.



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Lawlight said:
VGPolyglot said:

If he said that something happened the day before Trump's rally, then yes. However, I highly doubt that he said that.

He said the media doesn't cover the riots. So, how would you know?

Well, if the media doesn't cover them, how would Donald Trump know about them? He admitted that he got his info from Fox News, which is part of the media.



Peh said:
Slimebeast said:

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world." was in reference to VGPolyglot questioning whether it's relevant to compare crime commited by the offspring of immigrants with crime commited by ethnic Swedes.

This official Swedish government report does just that:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/

"Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children"

Quote from your source: 

Representatives ofthe police and the social authorities have expressed the opinion that at present the children ofimmigrants are the largest political criminality problem in Swedish society. The findings of this survey, to a certain extent, refute this; the children of immigrants commit less crime than immigrants. In principle this applies to all countries of origin surveyed. Since immigrants have not tended to increase their criminal activities since the survey period, we can say it is unlikely the children of immigrants will either. On the other hand, the number of children of immigrants in the country has increased quite considerably, which could be the reason why they are more visible in the crime staristics. The problem with the above conclusions is the fact that the children of immigrants in the survey were for the most part children ofimmigrant labour. It is therefore, possible that the picture has altered because it is now the children of refugee immigrants who are approaching the age when criminal activity is most common. However, some children included in the survey have parents who come from countries that have always generated a flow of refugees. Mainly the East European countries but also Jordan, Palestine and Syria. Nothing indicates that these children display a clearly higher tendency towards crime participation than the generation of their parents. On the contrary. It would be correct to say that generally these children display a noticably lower tendency to crime participation compared with their parental generation than is the case as found in the S4:rvey of other countries of origin.

Thanks for the Link Slimebeast. Send a copy to your biology teacher or whoever taught you that.

 

 

 

 

 

I never claimed that the children commit as much crime as their immigrants parents (of course they adapt and assimilate to some extent). I only know that studies (including this one) shows that the children commit more crime than ethnic Swedes.

And look at the second sentence you quoted: nothing indicates that the children display a higher tendency than the generation of their parents. WTF, who ever claimed that?? It's irrelevant.

The study clearly shows that the children of immigrants commit considerably more crime than ethnic Swedes.



Aura7541 said:
Peh said:

No, I didn't know and didn't expected to be a english summary there. But thanks for the reminder, went through with it and it condradicts what Slimebeast is claiming. Thanks for the tip.

It actually doesn't...

I don't know Swedish, but I am able to interpret the quantitative data.

For instance, Page 52 on Brå's 1996 report shows the per capita (per 1000) crimerate according to ethnicity. You can see that criminality among immigrants from Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Greece, and Japan is low. Compare that to the criminality among immigrants from Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Tunisia, etc., it's much much higher. The study also concluded that immigrants are overrepresented in crimes over native Swedes by about 2.1 times.

In Brå's 2005 report, overrepresentation increased from 2.1x to 2.5x. On Page 9, the report echoes what Brå found in its 1996 report in that criminality among immigrant varies by country. Asians, Europeans, and Americans have the lowest registered crime. Those in the MENA, on the other hand, are overrepresented.

The study even adjusted for socioeconomic factors and conluded on Page 21, that overrepresention still remained among immigrants. It also conluded on Page 23 that although discrimmination might have played a role, it only contributes a small one.

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.

You missed the whole point of what I am arguing about with Slimebeast.

It's about the children of immigrants. Re-read it again, please.



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Aura7541 said:
Peh said:

No, I didn't know and didn't expected to be a english summary there. But thanks for the reminder, went through with it and it condradicts what Slimebeast is claiming. Thanks for the tip.

It actually doesn't...

I don't know Swedish, but I am able to interpret the quantitative data.

For instance, Page 52 on Brå's 1996 report shows the per capita (per 1000) crimerate according to ethnicity. You can see that criminality among immigrants from Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Greece, and Japan is low. Compare that to the criminality among immigrants from Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Tunisia, etc., it's much much higher. The study also concluded that immigrants are overrepresented in crimes over native Swedes by about 2.1 times.

In Brå's 2005 report, overrepresentation increased from 2.1x to 2.5x. On Page 9, the report echoes what Brå found in its 1996 report in that criminality among immigrant varies by country. Asians, Europeans, and Americans have the lowest registered crime. Those in the MENA, on the other hand, are overrepresented.

The study even adjusted for socioeconomic factors and conluded on Page 21, that overrepresention still remained among immigrants. It also conluded on Page 23 that although discrimmination might have played a role, it only contributes a small one.

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.

And how did they decide how much to adjust for socioeconomic factors?



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Slimebeast said:
Peh said:

Quote from your source: 

Representatives ofthe police and the social authorities have expressed the opinion that at present the children ofimmigrants are the largest political criminality problem in Swedish society. The findings of this survey, to a certain extent, refute this; the children of immigrants commit less crime than immigrants. In principle this applies to all countries of origin surveyed. Since immigrants have not tended to increase their criminal activities since the survey period, we can say it is unlikely the children of immigrants will either. On the other hand, the number of children of immigrants in the country has increased quite considerably, which could be the reason why they are more visible in the crime staristics. The problem with the above conclusions is the fact that the children of immigrants in the survey were for the most part children ofimmigrant labour. It is therefore, possible that the picture has altered because it is now the children of refugee immigrants who are approaching the age when criminal activity is most common. However, some children included in the survey have parents who come from countries that have always generated a flow of refugees. Mainly the East European countries but also Jordan, Palestine and Syria. Nothing indicates that these children display a clearly higher tendency towards crime participation than the generation of their parents. On the contrary. It would be correct to say that generally these children display a noticably lower tendency to crime participation compared with their parental generation than is the case as found in the S4:rvey of other countries of origin.

Thanks for the Link Slimebeast. Send a copy to your biology teacher or whoever taught you that.

 

 

 

 

 

I never claimed that the children commit as much crime as their immigrants parents. I only know that studies (including this one) shows that the children commit more crime than ethnic Swedes.

And look at the second sentence you quoted: nothing indicates that the children display a higher tendency than the generation of their parents. WTF, who ever claimed that?? It's irrelevant.

The study clearly shows that the children of immigrants commit considerably more crime than ethnic Swedes.

PAGE 5 !!!

Slimebeast said: "You see, the offspring largely inherit the behaviour of their parents."

You are a liar!

You are dishonest!

That's why you are so full of bullshit and I called you out on it. And now you tell me, you never implied that?

You've send me a source with "Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children".



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VGPolyglot said:
Aura7541 said:

It actually doesn't...

I don't know Swedish, but I am able to interpret the quantitative data.

For instance, Page 52 on Brå's 1996 report shows the per capita (per 1000) crimerate according to ethnicity. You can see that criminality among immigrants from Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, Greece, and Japan is low. Compare that to the criminality among immigrants from Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Tunisia, etc., it's much much higher. The study also concluded that immigrants are overrepresented in crimes over native Swedes by about 2.1 times.

In Brå's 2005 report, overrepresentation increased from 2.1x to 2.5x. On Page 9, the report echoes what Brå found in its 1996 report in that criminality among immigrant varies by country. Asians, Europeans, and Americans have the lowest registered crime. Those in the MENA, on the other hand, are overrepresented.

The study even adjusted for socioeconomic factors and conluded on Page 21, that overrepresention still remained among immigrants. It also conluded on Page 23 that although discrimmination might have played a role, it only contributes a small one.

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.

And how did they decide how much to adjust for socioeconomic factors?

Here's the translation of the passage where the study says overrepresentation still remains when accounting for socioeconomic factors:

"This is true even after controlling for background factors such as gender, age, residence and socioeconomic status. The differences between the groups, not having two Swedish-born parents, and the group has two Swedish-born parents, decreases slightly after such control."

My guess is that the study eliminates criminals from the poverty line and only counts criminals that are wealthy enough to sustain a living. Then, the study calculates the per capita statistics after that. I don't understand Swedish, so it's hard for me to find the methodology.



Aura7541 said:

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.

Exactly. And worth noticing is that children of immigrants are counted as Swedes in that data.

So if we would look at today, the year 2017, and only count ethnic Swedes they probably make up only 1/4 of long-term inmates.



Slimebeast said:
Aura7541 said:

And according to this report from Kriminalvården, from 1997 - 2009, 47% of prisoners on long-time sentences are Swedish, 13% came from other countries and became citizens, and the remainder aren't Swedish citizens.

Exactly. And worth noticing is that children of immigrants are counted as Swedes in that data.

So if we would look at today, the year 2017, and only count ethnic Swedes they probably make up only 1/4 of long-term inmates.

Going from almost 50% to 25% in 8 years? I doubt that.



Aura7541 said:
VGPolyglot said:

And how did they decide how much to adjust for socioeconomic factors?

Here's the translation of the passage where the study says overrepresentation still remains when accounting for socioeconomic factors:

"This is true even after controlling for background factors such as gender, age, residence and socioeconomic status. The differences between the groups, not having two Swedish-born parents, and the group has two Swedish-born parents, decreases slightly after such control."

My guess is that the study eliminates criminals from the poverty line and only counts criminals that are wealthy enough to sustain a living. Then, the study calculates the per capita statistics after that. I don't understand Swedish, so it's hard for me to find the methodology.

So, we don't know how they adjusted it, then. It would much more helpful if it was completely translated into English.