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Forums - Politics Discussion - How to be Politically Correct!

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Mummelmann said:
Pemalite said:

"Political Correctness" is a term that is used by the far right, mostly so they can undermine an argument and disregard it completely by simply using that term to attack the individual/outlet instead to sidestep the argument completely.

Political Correctness is about trying to avoid offense or disadvantage to various demographics, that's not a bad thing in moderation, we should all strive for  equality and equity and all that.

To be fair; this is exactly the same strategy that the far left uses to avoid answering difficult questions, here in Sweden they call people nazis and fascists just as often as others claim political correctness is ruining the debate. People also have tendency to think "if you don't agree with me, you agree with my opposition, there is no middle ground". It's ludicrously polarized and staggeringly counter-productive and the debates are either at a complete standstill or quite simply non-existant.

Honestly; I despise the far left and far right equally, they both cause harm, the main difference is that one is easier, and more accepted, to hate. When I refuse to take an extreme standpoint in various issues here, people accuse me either being misinformed, ignorant and even cowardly, they just cannot fathom that someone sees the world in color and not simply black & white.

Ahh, so I see that you're a follower of the horseshoe theory. I'm not sure how these two are as bad as each other:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf



VGPolyglot said:
Mummelmann said:

To be fair; this is exactly the same strategy that the far left uses to avoid answering difficult questions, here in Sweden they call people nazis and fascists just as often as others claim political correctness is ruining the debate. People also have tendency to think "if you don't agree with me, you agree with my opposition, there is no middle ground". It's ludicrously polarized and staggeringly counter-productive and the debates are either at a complete standstill or quite simply non-existant.

Honestly; I despise the far left and far right equally, they both cause harm, the main difference is that one is easier, and more accepted, to hate. When I refuse to take an extreme standpoint in various issues here, people accuse me either being misinformed, ignorant and even cowardly, they just cannot fathom that someone sees the world in color and not simply black & white.

Ahh, so I see that you're a follower of the horseshoe theory. I'm not sure how these two are as bad as each other:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

There are more innocent communists and then there are the Lenin and Stalin's of our history. Communism has cost more lives than any other political ideology or direction in history. What's worse; most of the time, violence from communists is more accepted since they're seemingly "kinder". And, no, before you go there (like people invaribly do); I don't condone violence from nazis, I don't condone violence from anyone at all.

So, yes, I dislike communism as much as nazism and I think far left and far right is equally ridiculous in their ideology and that gross polarization of debate is causing us to go nowhere.

I suppose you could bomb me with articles and synopsis of alt the horrible thing the far right has done throughout history, but let me save you the trouble; I know about it and I absolutely despise it, but I would liken Stalin to Hitler any day of the week. Some people are able to have two ideas in their head at once and I don't consider myself leaning very much in any direction (although political compasses suggest that I might lean more to the left in certain issues).



Mummelmann said:
VGPolyglot said:

Ahh, so I see that you're a follower of the horseshoe theory. I'm not sure how these two are as bad as each other:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

There are more innocent communists and then there are the Lenin and Stalin's of our history. Communism has cost more lives than any other political ideology or direction in history. What's worse; most of the time, violence from communists is more accepted since they're seemingly "kinder". And, no, before you go there (like people invaribly do); I don't condone violence from nazis, I don't condone violence from anyone at all.

So, yes, I dislike communism as much as nazism and I think far left and far right is equally ridiculous in their ideology and that gross polarization of debate is causing us to go nowhere.

I suppose you could bomb we with articles and synopsis of alt the horrible thing the far right has done throughout history, but let me save you the trouble; I know about it and I absolutely despise it, but I would liken Stalin to Hitler any day of the week. Some people are able to have two ideas in their head at once and I don't consider myself leaning very much in any direction (although political compasses suggest that I might lean more to the left in certain issues).

I just sent you The Conquest of the Bread, wihich was written by Kropotkin, who was not a Marxist-Leninist. And in regards to communism killing more people than any other ideology in history:



^^Good point about capitalism, but are you thinking that I like capitalism?^^

One thing about that kill count though is that it's a bit harder to measure precisely, Nazism and communism have caused very clear cut and direct death tolls compared to capitalism, which is a more economic centric idea all in all and while it certainly alludes that some people and directions are more valuable, it's still not the same type of dogma.

That said; capitalism is not a positive mark of the 20th and 21st century, and I hope you realize that I know that too. However; my initial statement was that communism was as bad as nazism, or technically, you brought up Hitler and a communist, so the impact of capitalism amidst these arguments is kind of irrelevant for the purpose of my previous comparison and overall stance on far left and far right.



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Mummelmann said:

^^Good point about capitalism, but are you thinking that I like capitalism?^^

One thing about that kill count though is that it's a bit harder to measure precisely, Nazism and communism have caused very clear cut and direct death tolls compared to capitalism, which is a more economic centric idea all in all and while it certainly alludes that some people and directions are more valuable, it's still not the same type of dogma.

That said; capitalism is not a positive mark of the 20th and 21st century, and I hope you realize that I know that too. However; my initial statement was that communism was as bad as nazism, or technically, you brought up Hitler and a communist, so the impact of capitalism amidst these arguments is kind of irrelevant for the purpose of my previous comparison and overall stance on far left and far right.

It also depends on what kind of capitalism you're talking about. The type of capitalism most people criticize is crony capitalism or corporatism. I'm all for a free market, meritocratic capitalist system, but I also bemoan how much influence corporations have over the government.



Aura7541 said:
Mummelmann said:

^^Good point about capitalism, but are you thinking that I like capitalism?^^

One thing about that kill count though is that it's a bit harder to measure precisely, Nazism and communism have caused very clear cut and direct death tolls compared to capitalism, which is a more economic centric idea all in all and while it certainly alludes that some people and directions are more valuable, it's still not the same type of dogma.

That said; capitalism is not a positive mark of the 20th and 21st century, and I hope you realize that I know that too. However; my initial statement was that communism was as bad as nazism, or technically, you brought up Hitler and a communist, so the impact of capitalism amidst these arguments is kind of irrelevant for the purpose of my previous comparison and overall stance on far left and far right.

It also depends on what kind of capitalism you're talking about. The type of capitalism most people criticize is crony capitalism or corporatism. I'm all for a free market, meritocratic capitalist system, but I also bemoan how much influence corporations have over the government.

Free market, I'm not too sure, but quite free at least. Some regulation is needed, I saw a huge difference in the housing markets in Norway and Sweden when I moved here, in Norway there is no regulation on rents so the rents are beyond insane, especially in the cities. That's one example of regulation done right. Examples of poor regulations are also rife though, like when the Norwegian labour party said they wanted to increase corporate taxes so they could launch a government run recruitment program to get unemployment down and employ more young work force, whereas the NHO (Norwegian trades organization) stated that it would make a whole lot more sense to allow the corporations to spend these earmarked funds on their own accord towards the same purpose, sparing it a merry-go round in the state run administration which is driving costs of planning and allocation of projecta and funds through the roof, not to mention that the government has little to no knowledge of local needs and individual strengths and weaknesses of said companies, likely spurring them into either making poor decisions and wasting funds, or spending vast amounts of money on consulting services, as they are known to do across the board (pun intended).

I'm a bit torn, but the Scandinavian model is a hybrid economy, between planned/regulated and free market, it has produced societies with low unemployment and fairly successful welfare systems, but is has its weaknesses, mostly sustainability and a public sector that is bleeding money annually and proving stringent and inefficient at working in and allocating tax funds into useful venues and areas of society (as an example, Norwegian motorists pay a huge amount of fees and taxes and tolls on owning and running cars, but only a fraction of this income is spent of improving, developing and even maintaining infrastructure).



Mummelmann said:

To be fair; this is exactly the same strategy that the far left uses to avoid answering difficult questions, here in Sweden they call people nazis and fascists just as often as others claim political correctness is ruining the debate. People also have tendency to think "if you don't agree with me, you agree with my opposition, there is no middle ground". It's ludicrously polarized and staggeringly counter-productive and the debates are either at a complete standstill or quite simply non-existant.

Honestly; I despise the far left and far right equally, they both cause harm, the main difference is that one is easier, and more accepted, to hate. When I refuse to take an extreme standpoint in various issues here, people accuse me either being misinformed, ignorant and even cowardly, they just cannot fathom that someone sees the world in color and not simply black & white.

Which is why the best place to be is in the center.

You need the far right and the far left, they are two sides of a coin, two different perspectives, two different arguments... It allows for the majority in the center to look at the most compelling argument and go with it.
Both can be as extreme, hateful and vitriolic as each other otherwise.

So don't feel bad for your views, you are actually in the most desirable position anyway.


Mummelmann said:
^^Good point about capitalism, but are you thinking that I like capitalism?^^


One of Capitalism's greatest advantages is that it allows for the most efficient distribution of resources depending on supply/demand market conditions, it is also why it has managed to be so successfull.



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