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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Opinion: Microsoft should delay Scorpio until Holiday 2018 and call it Xbox 2

Pemalite said:
Turkish said:

To think correctly and use his head? Mark Cerny also used only flopz to "represent a direct relationship to increases in resolution" http://wccftech.com/mark-cerny-8-tflops-native-4k/

So as I said, if you think you're smarter than Mark Cerny himself, you should contact him ASAP to remind him he forgot abouts da geomtry units and the delta color compressions. 

I'm not getting into your Goal-post shifting rhetoric.
The issue was with you. Not Cerny. Don't sway from the original point of contention, I'm not going to play your game as I don't care enough.

Nah the issue is with you and your double standards. There is no difference on how I approached teraflops than Mark Cerny did. Next time don't act smart and condescending, who are you against Mark Cerny? Lol, reminds me of some people who think they know better than John Carmack after he said this



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Turkish said:
Pemalite said:

I'm not getting into your Goal-post shifting rhetoric.
The issue was with you. Not Cerny. Don't sway from the original point of contention, I'm not going to play your game as I don't care enough.

Nah the issue is with you and your double standards. There is no difference on how I approached teraflops than Mark Cerny did. Next time don't act smart and condescending, who are you against Mark Cerny? Lol, reminds me of some people who think they know better than John Carmack after he said this

The difference between you and Mark Cerny are significant.

With that in mind, I hold Mark Cerny to the same standard as you and that is a conversation for another day. - Your twitter links are entirely irrellevent to the topic at hand.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Turkish said:

Nah the issue is with you and your double standards. There is no difference on how I approached teraflops than Mark Cerny did. Next time don't act smart and condescending, who are you against Mark Cerny? Lol, reminds me of some people who think they know better than John Carmack after he said this

The difference between you and Mark Cerny are significant.

With that in mind, I hold Mark Cerny to the same standard as you and that is a conversation for another day. - Your twitter links are entirely irrellevent to the topic at hand.

They are entirely relevant, because it's another example of people thinking they know better than engineers in the industry. Also learn to read, I said there is no difference on how I approached teraflops. Mark Cerny said 8 Tflopz is required to hit 4K and nothing about geomtry units or delta compression. Yet you took issue when I only used Tflopz. That is double standards from you. Either way doesn't matter. People acting smart on the internet and getting put into their place but still coming back instead of apologizing is just sad.



Turkish said:
Pemalite said:

The difference between you and Mark Cerny are significant.

With that in mind, I hold Mark Cerny to the same standard as you and that is a conversation for another day. - Your twitter links are entirely irrellevent to the topic at hand.

They are entirely relevant, because it's another example of people thinking they know better than engineers in the industry. Also learn to read, I said there is no difference on how I approached teraflops. Mark Cerny said 8 Tflopz is required to hit 4K and nothing about geomtry units or delta compression. Yet you took issue when I only used Tflopz. That is double standards from you. Either way doesn't matter. People acting smart on the internet and getting put into their place but still coming back instead of apologizing is just sad.

You have made allot of assumptions. How do you know I am not an engineer?
Mark Cerny has to translate his "ideas" to the more casual/mainstream Audience like yourself, that does require a degree of simplification on his part in order to convey his intentions... Plus he is trying to sell the hardware for the company he works for, so he will talk up every advantage he can to shift more hardware.

You need to keep in mind that flops is a theoretical number, which is often unachievable in the real world, in-fact it is not unusual to get a graphics processor with "less flops" out-perform a graphics processor with more flops. - You can have a 2.5 Teraflop graphics card loose to a 1.5 Teraflop graphics card. - Wan't me to prove it?

As for requiring 8 Teraflops for 4k... That's a load of horse crap anyway. We know that is false, don't pretend otherwise.
The Geforce 1070 is capable of 4k gaming, despite the fact it is "only" 5.7 Teraflops... And yet the Radeon Fury X at 8.6 Teraflops struggles.

And why would I apologize? I haven't done anything wrong. ;)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Turkish said:

They are entirely relevant, because it's another example of people thinking they know better than engineers in the industry. Also learn to read, I said there is no difference on how I approached teraflops. Mark Cerny said 8 Tflopz is required to hit 4K and nothing about geomtry units or delta compression. Yet you took issue when I only used Tflopz. That is double standards from you. Either way doesn't matter. People acting smart on the internet and getting put into their place but still coming back instead of apologizing is just sad.

You have made allot of assumptions. How do you know I am not an engineer?
Mark Cerny has to translate his "ideas" to the more casual/mainstream Audience like yourself, that does require a degree of simplification on his part in order to convey his intentions... Plus he is trying to sell the hardware for the company he works for, so he will talk up every advantage he can to shift more hardware.

You need to keep in mind that flops is a theoretical number, which is often unachievable in the real world, in-fact it is not unusual to get a graphics processor with "less flops" out-perform a graphics processor with more flops. - You can have a 2.5 Teraflop graphics card loose to a 1.5 Teraflop graphics card. - Wan't me to prove it?

As for requiring 8 Teraflops for 4k... That's a load of horse crap anyway. We know that is false, don't pretend otherwise.
The Geforce 1070 is capable of 4k gaming, despite the fact it is "only" 5.7 Teraflops... And yet the Radeon Fury X at 8.6 Teraflops struggles.

And why would I apologize? I haven't done anything wrong. ;)

Yeah you're being a hypocrite as I said, when I only used Tflopz, you took issue, when I present others doing it, Mark Cerny no less, you shift goal posts and find excuses.  It's sad you keep coming back because you can't admit you're wrong. I always cringe when people act smart by bringing trivial things into the matter at hand. It's like when having a basic discussion on fast cars and using horse power, some know it all starts about the choice of tires or oil, yawn. Everyone uses Tflopz when discussing raw gpu power, the countless discussions on the Switch specs, Scorpio on here, Gaf, Beyond3D, even Mark Cerny did. Yet you somehow thought you're smarter than one of the brightest minds in the industry by feeling the need to correct me when I used Tflopz to express power. Geometry units, delta color compression? Ahahahahah. "As for requiring 8 Teraflops for 4k... That's a load of horse crap anyway". So the tweets I linked earlier are more than relevant? Random armchair expert thinks he know better than the best people in the industry...



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Turkish just like you said carmack points out that a console gets twice as much per per tf. So a 4.2 tf console should be able to do 4K. But mark while he does know more than me obviously has a clear agenda. He can't say 'we got the gpu to do 4K in instances but it won't happen often because we got the same old CPU and ram'. A 6tf Scorpio will be able to achieve 4K most of the time if the game has the optimization behind it. 3rd party devs likely won't be putting that much effort in until/if it starts selling really good.



Halo MCC will sell 5+ million copies(including digital)

halo 5 will sell 10 million copies(including digital)

x1 will pass ps4 in USA, and UK.

Microsoft has no cards against Sony once Sony has their exclusives ramped up. They cannot do battle with anyone on an exclusives front (even worse when Sony is doing well). Little things like specs are all Microsoft can really do, so let them let off some steam. Its useless, really.



Turkish said:

Yeah you're being a hypocrite as I said, when I only used Tflopz, you took issue, when I present others doing it, Mark Cerny no less, you shift goal posts and find excuses.

No. I also take issue when Mark Cerny does it, which I also elaborated upon (Please read). But Mark Ceny isn't the topic at hand, you brought that up.
With that in mind, Anandtech, Eurogamer and other tech-outlets are probably a better source of tech information than Mark Cenry. - They are also more independent and thus would end up being more impartial.

Turkish said:

It's sad you keep coming back because you can't admit you're wrong. I always cringe when people act smart by bringing trivial things into the matter at hand. It's like when having a basic discussion on fast cars and using horse power, some know it all starts about the choice of tires or oil, yawn.


Okay, so... All you are doing is taking personal pot shots rather than discussing the issue at hand, so either... Move on or present your argument.

Turkish said:

Everyone uses Tflopz when discussing raw gpu power, the countless discussions on the Switch specs, Scorpio on here, Gaf, Beyond3D, even Mark Cerny did. Yet you somehow thought you're smarter than one of the brightest minds in the industry by feeling the need to correct me when I used Tflopz to express power. Geometry units, delta color compression? Ahahahahah. "As for requiring 8 Teraflops for 4k... That's a load of horse crap anyway". So the tweets I linked earlier are more than relevant? Random armchair expert thinks he know better than the best people in the industry...

Pushing the immature bullshit aside (Seriously, I don't care for it), I have never once compared intelligence levels of anyone on this forum or elsewhere, so whatever you are trying to accomplish with that... I have no idea. But it's not something I typically do.

Also, are you suggesting that flops is the most important denominator in determining the absolute performance characteristics of a graphics processing unit? Because as I stated earlier I can provide evidentuary support that would contradict such a claim extremely quickly. (Hint: I am calling your bluff.)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Turkish said:

Yeah you're being a hypocrite as I said, when I only used Tflopz, you took issue, when I present others doing it, Mark Cerny no less, you shift goal posts and find excuses.

No. I also take issue when Mark Cerny does it, which I also elaborated upon (Please read). But Mark Ceny isn't the topic at hand, you brought that up.
With that in mind, Anandtech, Eurogamer and other tech-outlets are probably a better source of tech information than Mark Cenry. - They are also more independent and thus would end up being more impartial.

Turkish said:

It's sad you keep coming back because you can't admit you're wrong. I always cringe when people act smart by bringing trivial things into the matter at hand. It's like when having a basic discussion on fast cars and using horse power, some know it all starts about the choice of tires or oil, yawn.


Okay, so... All you are doing is taking personal pot shots rather than discussing the issue at hand, so either... Move on or present your argument.

Turkish said:

Everyone uses Tflopz when discussing raw gpu power, the countless discussions on the Switch specs, Scorpio on here, Gaf, Beyond3D, even Mark Cerny did. Yet you somehow thought you're smarter than one of the brightest minds in the industry by feeling the need to correct me when I used Tflopz to express power. Geometry units, delta color compression? Ahahahahah. "As for requiring 8 Teraflops for 4k... That's a load of horse crap anyway". So the tweets I linked earlier are more than relevant? Random armchair expert thinks he know better than the best people in the industry...

Pushing the immature bullshit aside (Seriously, I don't care for it), I have never once compared intelligence levels of anyone on this forum or elsewhere, so whatever you are trying to accomplish with that... I have no idea. But it's not something I typically do.

Also, are you suggesting that flops is the most important denominator in determining the absolute performance characteristics of a graphics processing unit? Because as I stated earlier I can provide evidentuary support that would contradict such a claim extremely quickly. (Hint: I am calling your bluff.)

So there was no need for you to respond with "ur tflopz use sucks" when you knew full well everyone and the industry people themselves use it like I did. Thats what this was about man, not whether Mark Cerny is independent or not. How many countless threads do we have discussing Switch and Scorpio specs in the same way I did itt. If you realized that, we wouldn't have this silly back and forth.



Waiting a year and either beefing up the specs or lowering the launch price would help in some ways, but I don't think their decision to launch Scorpio late 2017 is solely based on their wants and needs. No matter what they say, strategy is key. It's a big part of why PS4 has done so well.

PS4 has won this gen, end of story. The longer this gen is aloud to go on, the longer XB has to wait to get back in the game. The sooner XB can launch their next gen "no generations" console, the more pressure they put on PS to move on to PS5. Now PS would most likely want to stretch PS4 as far as it can possibly go, but if XB can come up with something much more compelling now, with specs that Pro can't come close to competing with overall, than PS is somewhat risking next gen by holding onto this gen for too long. That's not to say PS5 would have to launch immediately, but may be pushed forward quicker than PS would like, if Scorpio sales are impressive enough.

By waiting another year, they also take a chance on being compared to PS5 instead of PS4 Pro. Right now Scorpio will look much superior to Pro. If they wait, and small leaks start seeping through the cracks, and PS5 is said to be stronger than Scorpio, and not all that far off, than it will put a damper on the Scorpio launch and its sales. Something XB most certainly does not want. XB needs to launch at a time where they can better control the marketing and message and not be as affected by the competition. Again, strategy.