Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto Still Has Doubts About Virtual Reality

Mummelmann said:
Kai_Mao said:

i still need a source on the bolded. Sure you could point out Star Fox Zero but he did think online could work for Luigi's Mansion 2. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-12-miyamoto-says-nintendo-didnt-focus-on-online-because-it-would-have-limited-the-size-of-the-audience-that-could-enjoy-those-features

According to him, prior to 2013, online play was bunk because it "would have limited the size of the audience that could enjoy those features", which is clearly hogwash. He never understood the importance of online and it had already been huge for a good 5-6 years at that point.

https://www.destructoid.com/miyamoto-on-why-super-mario-3d-world-doesn-t-have-online-264340.phtml

In late 2013, he claims that online Mario could be something to consider "in ten years time", those are the words of someone without a clue, doubly so seeing Nintendo recent mobile efforts. They're still clinging to the notion that local multiplayer is the shizzle though, the Switch has inherited this philosophy, and I think that it's a not-so great idea, all in all.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/no-online-support-planned-for-star-fox-zero-miyamo/1100-6428286/

No online for Starfox in 2015, focusing instead on single player.

https://gamerant.com/miyamoto-interview-personal-poole-24104/

"To be honest, I think it’s rather unfair whenever I hear such comments — that Nintendo isn’t proactive when it comes to its online strategy. The fact of the matter is that we always want all Wii consoles to be connected online, all the time, so Nintendo has never been less than proactive in that kind of endeavor"

That was during the Wii days, they made practically zero effort on online, besides some VC titles and they were lagging years behind the competition.

http://gametyrant.com/news/watch-a-cool-video-about-shigeru-miyamotos-philosophy-to-gaming

It seems that he still consider online gaming a "trend", his hat has gotten tight over the years, it seems, and he still hasn't learned his lesson.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2463270/nintendos-miyamoto-not-our-goal-to-become-the-number-one-online-gaming-company/

"For example, there are opportunities to take advantage of online to expand a local, same-room multiplayer experience by connecting that to the internet and making new types of play that way. Also by having the smaller screen, being able to go online and perhaps see what game your friend is playing or see what TV they're watching, I think there's a lot of possibilities for how you could use that. Certainly internet functionality is something that will be important for the system"

Using online component to improve local multiplayer and same room gaming experiences... Going online to see what your friend is playing or what they'r watching on TV, and this was in 2011, way after online had exploded completely globally. The above is a person talking nonsense, in case that's hard to identify.

http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/06/technology/column_gaming/

In online gaming's infancy, while Sony, MS and the majority of the PC community already claimed that it was the future of gaming, Miyamoto simply frowned upon online gaming, likening it to "using violence in video games". Such foresight.

 

Look; it's well known that Miyamoto has been holding Nintendo back in certain areas and that he's a die-hard traditionalist who is not overly fond of change. His stance on online gaming and user generated content is very well known in the industry, and rather well documented at that. This is no secret and has been a huge topic for discussion online for at least a decade, his constant insistence on 3D is much along the same line of reasoning and anyone who has spent any time in here or elsewhere online discussing games would know as much.

I appreciate you took the time to bring all of this up with sources. I stand corrected. Though it doesn't necessarily change my stance or perception of Miyamoto despite that. I mean I get that he's not perfect, but who else is? Or maybe he suits my needs in gaming because 

In regards to the Mario and online source, he probably didn't see online platforming with Mario at the time. And with mobile, he seemed to embrace Mario Run and what it could provide. I mean sure you can share levels in Little Big Planet, but what else? Maybe it's just me, but besides Mario Maker and Run, what else could Mario do for online play that can enhance 2D and 3D platforming? Maybe Odyssey will solve that but who knows.

And with online in general, it's not like he's completely resisted. He encouraged devs to make games like Splatoon and ARMS, games that have or will have online components. Heck, he thought Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon would benefit with online multiplayer. So he's come around a bit. 

And what's wrong with keeping local multiplayer for the Switch? Fans of Halo were critical of 5 not having couch co-op story campaign like the past games and having to instead have online co-op only. While online multiplayer is something important, you don't have to lose local multiplayer. Even in an online world, there's still value in playing Smash or Mario Kart with friends together in the living room or something. In fact, believe it or not, as long as I have being playing games, Mass Effect 3 was the first game where I attempted to invest in online multiplayer. Granted, probably not the best first game to try online (hearing players make bad comments about me and not even have a chance to catch up with them as a player). The only games I enjoyed investing in online play are Splatoon and Overwatch, accessible and fun. I'm sure there are those who are like that but don't show their presence often in forums like these.



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Current VR is like 3D TVs. Some people talk about it, a few people buy them and in a few years no one will give a shit about it. VR still needs a decade or so for advancements and for the tech to reach mass market price. Till then it will be a niche product.  I hope facebook loses a shitload of money on their Oculus purchase.



Animal Crossing: New Leaf Dream Address: 4A00-0015-4775

The man must not masturbate these days.

sethnintendo said:

Current VR is like 3D TVs. Some people talk about it, a few people buy them and in a few years no one will give a shit about it. VR still needs a decade or so for advancements and for the tech to reach mass market price. Till then it will be a niche product.  I hope facebook loses a shitload of money on their Oculus purchase.

What the heck was that for?



PSN: Hynad --- NNID: Hynad81 --- Gamertag: Hynad --- Steam: Hynad

Hynad said:

What the heck was that for?

Sorry I can't control my facebook hate.



Animal Crossing: New Leaf Dream Address: 4A00-0015-4775

sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:

What the heck was that for?

Sorry I can't control my facebook hate.

Why? Did facebook steal your candy when you were a little kid or something?



PSN: Hynad --- NNID: Hynad81 --- Gamertag: Hynad --- Steam: Hynad

I enjoy VR for a short amount of time. It causes motion sickness (at least on me) and sometimes i feel extremely dizzy after playing VR for awhile

sry for my bad english - it is not my 1st language

Kai_Mao said:

I appreciate you took the time to bring all of this up with sources. I stand corrected. Though it doesn't necessarily change my stance or perception of Miyamoto despite that. I mean I get that he's not perfect, but who else is? Or maybe he suits my needs in gaming because 

In regards to the Mario and online source, he probably didn't see online platforming with Mario at the time. And with mobile, he seemed to embrace Mario Run and what it could provide. I mean sure you can share levels in Little Big Planet, but what else? Maybe it's just me, but besides Mario Maker and Run, what else could Mario do for online play that can enhance 2D and 3D platforming? Maybe Odyssey will solve that but who knows.

And with online in general, it's not like he's completely resisted. He encouraged devs to make games like Splatoon and ARMS, games that have or will have online components. Heck, he thought Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon would benefit with online multiplayer. So he's come around a bit. 

And what's wrong with keeping local multiplayer for the Switch? Fans of Halo were critical of 5 not having couch co-op story campaign like the past games and having to instead have online co-op only. While online multiplayer is something important, you don't have to lose local multiplayer. Even in an online world, there's still value in playing Smash or Mario Kart with friends together in the living room or something. In fact, believe it or not, as long as I have being playing games, Mass Effect 3 was the first game where I attempted to invest in online multiplayer. Granted, probably not the best first game to try online (hearing players make bad comments about me and not even have a chance to catch up with them as a player). The only games I enjoyed investing in online play are Splatoon and Overwatch, accessible and fun. I'm sure there are those who are like that but don't show their presence often in forums like these.

Miyamoto is a genius in his own right, in my honest opinion, my frustration with the man is mainly from his traditionalist attitudes towards the market. He represents an aging Nintendo who are slowly dying out and being replaced by a younger and more forward thinking one. Basically, him and some others have been behaving as if they still have their dominant 80's and early 90's position in the market, which they clearly don't, and have made choices based on that mindset.

He has come around but he's been slow, some would argue too slow. I think I would argue that, in fact. Jumping on the wagon after it has rolled for a long time makes it more difficult to get a good spot, it was the same with HD development, it caused no end of problems for them with the Wii U since they had no experience with it, and caused delay after delay where other developers had long since settled into the pace of higher res games with more effects. I think that what Nintendo need most of all is a new Miyamoto, one that's like he was when he exploded onto the scene and one more attuned with the modern market and its demands and needs.

There's nothing wrong with local multiplayer, I happen to love it myself and I also have many fond memories of it, especially on PC and N64 with 4 player sessions. But the market has changed and moved on, and with online having become the norm and Nintendo seemingly wanting to dip their venerable toes in the pools of the mass market once more, they need to look at what the mass market wants and needs and not what Miyamoto wants to keep primarily doing. They seem to have little emphasis on online, their paid service is sounding bleak, they have very poor support for apps, it seems, no voice chat built in, no Netflix, no browser and some pretty poor showings for incentive for paying for their services when this rolls around. Online seems like an afterthought, when the mass market is spending the vast, vast majority of their time online on the phones and tablets, this strikes me as a truly odd choice but very typical in the vein of people like Miyamoto. Releasing a tablet that focuses solely on games and mostly on local multiplayer outside the home seems like a pretty poor idea in such a market. It's not about jumping on trends (which they're heavily doing anyway with their tablet form factor...) but about adapting to the market in general.

Long story short; if the Switch fails to become what it could have become, I blame it on people like Miyamoto and his stubborness and refusal to read and respond to the market and instead injecting what he wants into the concepts. And I'm still far from sold on the whole concept and form factor of the Switch on top of this, I can't shake this feeling that making a tablet, one that has barely any actual tablet functionality, is a mistake and that the high number of pre-orders are not indicative of massive lifetime sales, but merely die-hard's fans tired of the Wii U. I guess time will tell, in the meantime, one can always hope that Miyamoto will learn how to tell time...



End of 2016 hardware sales:

Wii U: 15 million. PS4: 54 million. One: 30 million. 3DS: 64.8 million. PSVita: 15.2 million.

I partially share his worries: when it comes to social interaction, VR is worse than local multiplayer. But VR, if used well, for games suitable for it, can improve gaming in all the other situations, local and online single player and online multiplayer. As others wrote, there's still much work to do for input methods, full body tracking with finger movement resolution will be a giant step for immersion and completeness of experience, and good paradigms to translate some motions into navigation commands must be devised to allow both interaction and free roaming in the virtual world, VR on rails would become boring, or even worse claustrophobic, quite soon.
About kids, I guess parents will better let them use it only following opinions, suggestions and guidelines of the best child neuropsychiatrists. This said, I also guess that a more advanced VR could be great to better the lives of children, and adults too, with some kinds of disabilities.
Right now both its full sets of HW devices available and SW using it aren't very mature yet, and prices are still high for mainstream, but considering that most of the tech needed is already used also in the cheapest smartphones, it's just matter of time.

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a one off game I can see it - the future - maybe too much!

but come on - Zelda VR?

That would be great!

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