Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I'm sick of Nintendo's 720p games... We should have minimum 900p atleast for Switch

Scisca said:
MohammadBadir said:

Close enough. 29UM58 :D

Ha! Close I own the 29UM68, but I guess only the stand and chasis are different.

BTW. I'm still salivating over the LG 38UC99... But I think I'll go for one so big when they offer ultrawide 4k resolution and maaaybe even 144Hz on top of that.

#UltrawideMasterRace
#75HzDemolish60Hz
#OnceYouGoUltrawideYouCan'tGoBack

Bruh ain't that the truth. I can't imagine working on a normal 16:9 display now (Had a 8:5 display before this one). I'm not in a rush to upgrade, I've had my old display for 8 years :S

I wish that all games supported true 2560x1080 though.



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All these "4K screens make my games look like arse" comments are making me glad my TV is 1080p. :P

 

Never said:
I'd much rather have 60 fps in almost any game 

You're in luck then; Nintendo games mostly run at a rock solid 60fps.



Miyamotoo said:

 

I really don't see what exactly you proved me with this picture!? Do we have some game on PS3 that runs on 1080p but actually it's downsampled to 720p, or like we have on Pro running at 4k actually downsampled to 1080p for 1080p users!? Of Course not.

I showed the difference upscaling brings.
We are also not talking about downsampling.

You know Grand Torusimo 4 on the Playstation 2? That 1080i mode? That is also upscaling. People saw benefits.

Don't ignore the evidence.

Plus the Switch already has an upscaler built in.

Miyamotoo said:

 

Again you missing a point, for that 4k interface they used extra Pro power and capabilities, that couldn't be done with base PS4.

No they don't.

I don't think you understand how much processing a UI takes. Hint: It's not an issue for modern systems. It's a 2D overlay.



---:::}}} Part of the PC Gaming Master Race. {{{:::---

What ive seen looks fine to me, and more importantly , looks like it will be fun to play.

If you care so much about what it looks like, then don't buy it, spend a bunch on a great PC and melt your eyes with framerates and 4k

SubiyaCryolite said:
SegataSanshiro said:
I still get insane amounts fo fun from 240P games. I don't care much about resolution. ARMS looks amazing.

Did any of you guys even read the OP? He has a 4k screen. 4K!!! The scaling must be pretty bad. 1080p games look blury as hell on my 2K IPS.

1080p looks blurry on a 2K screen because it isn't an integer scale of 2K. 720p (2x2 pixels) should actually look better on your 2K - given that all noise reduction and artificial sharpness are turned off - since the hardware is essentially line-doubling instead of upscaling. 

 

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

Dedicated gaming device is not same like phone that is bascicly mini PC, where you have two cameras, videos... What exactly benefits would be for Switch to have 1080p screen if games don't runs at native resolution!? 

... A phone is more closely related to the Switch than a PC. Not just with the software stack, but the hardware stack as well.

As for the higher resolution... Having the GUI, Text etc' at a higher resolution generally doesn't take a big toll on performance, but can dramatically improve clarity, contrary to popular belief not all of a games various assets actually output at a displays native resolution.

But the real answer to your question is: Upscaling.

There seems to be some confusion about upscaling amongst those who aren't into the retro gaming scene at the moment. Lower-res content looks its best when played on a screen that fits its resolution perfectly. Good scalers can bring those sources up to a larger pixel count with negligible artifacts, while most scalers seriously degrade an image. 

1080p looks okay on most 4Ks because 1080p and 4K are integers.

Where things (generally) start to get ugly is non-integer scaling. For example, 720p on a 1080p screen, 1080p on a 2K (1440p) screen, and 2K on a 4K (2160p). Those resolutions don't divide evenly into one another, and so the scaler needs to "guess" at extra pixels instead of simply doubling (2x2 wide) or tripling (3x3 wide) the pixels of the source content. 

 

Pemalite said:

Rubbish. Last generation a ton of games were upscaled to 720P and 1080P on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 and the games looked better for it.

If you are unable to understand the fact that upscaling brings some inherent benefits, then you should probably do some research on upscaling.
 

In-fact screw it. I'll prove it.
Here you go.

Case closed and we can move on.

That image is actually a perfect example of how much information is generally lost during bad upscaling. The "normal" image has sharp pixels and great contrast. The upscaled image, by comparison, is fuzzy and contrast is low. 

I would recommend the RGB master series by "My Life in Gaming" or anything by Fudoh for more information about upscaling. 

 

---

 

For anyone thinking of picking up a 4K TV for use with older consoles, please do your research on how those televisions handle analog signals and if they feature a fast, decent scaler. For those who already own a 4K and aren't happy with the picture, and/or lag, check your system settings. Turn off any artificial sharpness, edge enhancement, noise reduction, etc. Look for a "game mode" if available. That should leave the picture from your older consoles generally unmolested. 



Retro Tech Select - My YouTube channel, covering vintage tech and classic vid'ya games! Check it out if you're halfways cool - subscribe if you're totally awesome!

m_csquare said:
Human eyes can only see 360p dont u knw?

I know you are just trolling, but for those interested, the human eye resolves visual input at around 12960p depending on age.

i.e. 23040x12960, i.e. 12x the resolution of 1080p, 6x the resolution of 4k.



Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

 

I really don't see what exactly you proved me with this picture!? Do we have some game on PS3 that runs on 1080p but actually it's downsampled to 720p, or like we have on Pro running at 4k actually downsampled to 1080p for 1080p users!? Of Course not.

I showed the difference upscaling brings.
We are also not talking about downsampling.

You know Grand Torusimo 4 on the Playstation 2? That 1080i mode? That is also upscaling. People saw benefits.

Don't ignore the evidence.

Plus the Switch already has an upscaler built in.

Miyamotoo said:

 

Again you missing a point, for that 4k interface they used extra Pro power and capabilities, that couldn't be done with base PS4.

No they don't.

I don't think you understand how much processing a UI takes. Hint: It's not an issue for modern systems. It's a 2D overlay.

No, actually we're talking about downsampling, in this particular case downsampling from 1080p to 720p touch screen. Pictures you showed doesn't have anything we staffs we talking about here.

Lol, what evidence!?

Every TV has upscaler, but that's not native upscaler, while for Switch you have games running at native 720p in portable mode and on TV at native 1080p.

 

If relly doesn't use extra power of Pro, why those features are not available on basic PS4 but just on Pro model!?

From link that you posted:

"Primarily, Overwatch players can expect improved performance in 1920x1080 resolution on PlayStation 4 Pro. We've also made several minor improvements that take advantage of the console's capabilities, including better texture filtering and UI enhancements."

 

Bottom of line, Switch in portable mode is meant to be 720p handheld, that's why it has 720p screen thats why there is no any need for 1080p screen and thats why Switch does not have 1080p screen, it doesnt need it, very simple. Also for record, all people who actually tried Switch are saying that screen is great, games look very sharp and bright.



StuOhQ said:

 

Pemalite said:

... A phone is more closely related to the Switch than a PC. Not just with the software stack, but the hardware stack as well.

As for the higher resolution... Having the GUI, Text etc' at a higher resolution generally doesn't take a big toll on performance, but can dramatically improve clarity, contrary to popular belief not all of a games various assets actually output at a displays native resolution.

But the real answer to your question is: Upscaling.

There seems to be some confusion about upscaling amongst those who aren't into the retro gaming scene at the moment. Lower-res content looks its best when played on a screen that fits its resolution perfectly. Good scalers can bring those sources up to a larger pixel count with negligible artifacts, while most scalers seriously degrade an image. 

1080p looks okay on most 4Ks because 1080p and 4K are integers.

Where things (generally) start to get ugly is non-integer scaling. For example, 720p on a 1080p screen, 1080p on a 2K (1440p) screen, and 2K on a 4K (2160p). Those resolutions don't divide evenly into one another, and so the scaler needs to "guess" at extra pixels instead of simply doubling (2x2 wide) or tripling (3x3 wide) the pixels of the source content. 

I'm not disputing that.

What you are talking about is Nearest Neighbor resampling, which allows you to keep the image nice and clean and fresh.

But when that option isn't available... You can still gain better results than native resolution thanks to video scalers having built in functionality that can do a few post-process passes, such as blurring, sharpening, interpolation, that sort of thing.

Good scalers shouldn't degrade an image, introduce artifacts or "damage" an image if done correctly.


StuOhQ said:

That image is actually a perfect example of how much information is generally lost during bad upscaling. The "normal" image has sharp pixels and great contrast. The upscaled image, by comparison, is fuzzy and contrast is low. 

I would recommend the RGB master series by "My Life in Gaming" or anything by Fudoh for more information about upscaling.


It's an extreme example and not a perfect upscale, meant to accentuate the differences.

There are also different types of upscaling. You can take a Progressive image and rebuild it into a "higher resolution" interlaced image, one of the most popular examples was Grand Turismo 4 on the Playstation 2... And the improvements was striking and universally praised.


Miyamotoo said:

No, actually we're talking about downsampling, in this particular case downsampling from 1080p to 720p touch screen. Pictures you showed doesn't have anything we staffs we talking about here.


You must be confused. I have been talking about upscaling a 720P game to 1080P this entire time.
Remember how I wanted a 1080P screen in the Switch? Even if games aren't being rendered at that resolution? That's called upscaling. Not Downsampling.

Miyamotoo said:

Every TV has upscaler, but that's not native upscaler, while for Switch you have games running at native 720p in portable mode and on TV at native 1080p.

If you think a TV's upscaler has the same capabilities as the Scaler built into the Switch, then you are kidding yourself.

The Switch is going to be upscaling a ton of games whilst docked to 1080P, if you think every Switch game is going to be 1080P whilst docked, then again, you are kidding yourself.

I want the same on the Portable screen.

Miyamotoo said:

If relly doesn't use extra power of Pro, why those features are not available on basic PS4 but just on Pro model!?

Good question. Probably because the HDMI 1.4 port is limited to 30hz at 4k on the regular Playstation 4. Overwatch is a 60fps game.

Or Blizzard opted not to backport it and downscale the UI even though both versions of the game are 1080P... On the Pro, the game is upscaled.


Miyamotoo said:

Bottom of line, Switch in portable mode is meant to be 720p handheld, that's why it has 720p screen thats why there is no any need for 1080p screen and thats why Switch does not have 1080p screen, it doesnt need it, very simple.


Correct. The Switch is a 720P handheld. Mostly because Nintendo decided to cheap out.

720P is unacceptable in 2017. It's very simple.



---:::}}} Part of the PC Gaming Master Race. {{{:::---

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

No, actually we're talking about downsampling, in this particular case downsampling from 1080p to 720p touch screen. Pictures you showed doesn't have anything we staffs we talking about here.


You must be confused. I have been talking about upscaling a 720P game to 1080P this entire time.
Remember how I wanted a 1080P screen in the Switch? Even if games aren't being rendered at that resolution? That's called upscaling. Not Downsampling.

Miyamotoo said:

Every TV has upscaler, but that's not native upscaler, while for Switch you have games running at native 720p in portable mode and on TV at native 1080p.

If you think a TV's upscaler has the same capabilities as the Scaler built into the Switch, then you are kidding yourself.

The Switch is going to be upscaling a ton of games whilst docked to 1080P, if you think every Switch game is going to be 1080P whilst docked, then again, you are kidding yourself.

I want the same on the Portable screen.

Miyamotoo said:

If relly doesn't use extra power of Pro, why those features are not available on basic PS4 but just on Pro model!?

Good question. Probably because the HDMI 1.4 port is limited to 30hz at 4k on the regular Playstation 4. Overwatch is a 60fps game.

Or Blizzard opted not to backport it and downscale the UI even though both versions of the game are 1080P... On the Pro, the game is upscaled.


Miyamotoo said:

Bottom of line, Switch in portable mode is meant to be 720p handheld, that's why it has 720p screen thats why there is no any need for 1080p screen and thats why Switch does not have 1080p screen, it doesnt need it, very simple.


Correct. The Switch is a 720P handheld. Mostly because Nintendo decided to cheap out.

720P is unacceptable in 2017. It's very simple.

What good would get running 720p game on 1080p screen!? Nothing, it's basically same like running 720p game on 720p screen.

Lol, Switch does not have "built in" upscaler that makes native 720p games runing at native 1080p, but games will built in way that will use extra power of Switch that became available in docked mode for higher resolution in TV mode. Games are built in way that will run at 720p in handheld mode and at higher resolution in docked mode, something similar like PS4 Pro is doing compared to basic PS4.

You cant get 1080p games on Switch in portable mode because hardware would need to run at much higher clock at 1080p resolution, that basically means much worse battery life than it actually is. You do realise there is reason why Switch GPU clocks are 40% lower than those in docked mode!?

That doesn't have anything with "Nintendo decided to cheap out", it has with making best solution for product like Swith where you need to pay atention at battery life also. Actually easiest way would be for Nintendo if they made Switch in way that games runs at exactly same way at 1080p at portable mode and docked mode at same clocks, but reality is that battery in that case most likely would be around 1 hour.

Of Course that 720p screen is very acceptable for dedicated gaming device in 2017, and impressions of people who actually tried Switch proves that, like I wrote, all people saying that picture on Switch screen is great, very sharp and bright. For record Switch screen has similar pixel density like iPad Pro.



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Mar1217 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Fucks sake *face palm*

 Was that insulting to you that I'm still playing on my 3DS ?

240p is native to your 3DS. You think 720p looks as good on a 2160p screen? What does your 3DS have to do with a 4K screen? The OP is talking about his 4k not your freaking 3DS.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine