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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I'm sick of Nintendo's 720p games... We should have minimum 900p atleast for Switch

Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

What good would get running 720p game on 1080p screen!? Nothing, it's basically same like running 720p game on 720p screen.


We have been over this already. I am not going to keep repeating myself. Go back over my prior posts.


Miyamotoo said:

Lol, Switch does not have "built in" upscaler that makes native 720p games runing at native 1080p, but games will built in way that will use extra power of Switch that became available in docked mode for higher resolution in TV mode. Games are built in way that will run at 720p in handheld mode and at higher resolution in docked mode, something similar like PS4 Pro is doing compared to basic PS4.

It does have an upscaler. Otherwise whilst it is docked, the Switch wouldn't be able to upscale it's games to 1080P.

Miyamotoo said:

You cant get 1080p games on Switch in portable mode because hardware would need to run at much higher clock at 1080p resolution, that basically means much worse battery life than it actually is. You do realise there is reason why Switch GPU clocks are 40% lower than those in docked mode!?

We aren't talking about running games at 1080P. Do keep up.

Miyamotoo said:

That doesn't have anything with "Nintendo decided to cheap out", it has with making best solution for product like Swith where you need to pay atention at battery life also.

Nah. Nintendo cheaped out on the screen.
They even cheaped out on the Tegra chip, but that's a discussion for another day.

Miyamotoo said:

Of Course that 720p screen is very acceptable for dedicated gaming device in 2017, and impressions of people who actually tried Switch proves that, like I wrote, all people saying that picture on Switch screen is great, very sharp and bright. For record Switch screen has similar pixel density like iPad Pro.

The iPad Pro has a higher pixel density of 264 pixels per inch.
The Switch has a pixel density of 236.87 pixels per inch.

The iPad Pro has an "okay"
2048 x 1536 on the 9.7" model and 2732 x 2048 on the 12.9" model.

iPad Pro is superior... And that is saying something considering the iPad is far from the best, but is also one of the most expensive tablets.

And that's only the resolution. Remember, Switch cheaped out and is isn't using something like OLED/AMOLED.

720P is a last century resolution, it's not okay in my tablets, it's not okay in my phone, it's not okay on my PC, it's not okay on my TV. Why would I think a Nintendo device should be the exception to the rule? News flash: It shouldn't.

Agree we cant this like this all time, I also gave all answers in previus posts.

Like wrote, It doesn't have "automatic upscaler", but games will built in way that will use extra power of Switch that became available in docked mode for higher resolution in TV mode. Games are built in way that will run at 720p in handheld mode and at higher resolution in docked mode, something similar like PS4 Pro is doing compared to basic PS4.

We are talking about there is no any need for 1080p screen for dedicated gaming device if your games are 720p, thats clear fact that you keep ignore.

No they didn't cheap, its very reasonable decisions, but you can also ignore that. And they don't cheap out with Tegra chip because its actualy best suits for device like Switch.

 

Yes, because that's why I wrote similar, 264 vs 236.87, that's only 10% difference, thats nothing. 

Far more important is pixel density that just resolution, and fact is that Switch and iPad Pro have similar pixel density.

iPad Pro also doenst have AMOLED/OLED and is also using IPS, is that means Apple cheaped out also!? :D          And why would Nintendo use something like AMOLED/OLED, when that would effect on higher price of device (even Apple is not using AMOLED/OLED), and when actualy people are saying that IPS Switch screen is great!?

Like I wrote, far more important is pixel density, and 720p for dedicated gaming device where main point is just to playing games at native 720p is enuf. You can't really compare that with phones that are multi functional devices like PCs that are using for so many things outside games, they even have 2k screens but actually mobile games running at 720p. And again what would be a point of 1080p screen if games are 720p!? And we also have fact that all people who tried and all media, that games on Switch screens look great, very sharp and vibrant.

 

Not only that you have arguments without sense, but you actually totally ignoring some clear facts. Basically all your arguments come "720p screen is low for 2017." while you totaly keep ignoring all clear facts. So having all that on mind, I dont have any more attention to spend any of my time on this arguing.



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Pemalite said:
Miyamotoo said:

What good would get running 720p game on 1080p screen!? Nothing, it's basically same like running 720p game on 720p screen.


We have been over this already. I am not going to keep repeating myself. Go back over my prior posts.


Miyamotoo said:

Lol, Switch does not have "built in" upscaler that makes native 720p games runing at native 1080p, but games will built in way that will use extra power of Switch that became available in docked mode for higher resolution in TV mode. Games are built in way that will run at 720p in handheld mode and at higher resolution in docked mode, something similar like PS4 Pro is doing compared to basic PS4.

It does have an upscaler. Otherwise whilst it is docked, the Switch wouldn't be able to upscale it's games to 1080P.

Miyamotoo said:

You cant get 1080p games on Switch in portable mode because hardware would need to run at much higher clock at 1080p resolution, that basically means much worse battery life than it actually is. You do realise there is reason why Switch GPU clocks are 40% lower than those in docked mode!?

We aren't talking about running games at 1080P. Do keep up.

Miyamotoo said:

That doesn't have anything with "Nintendo decided to cheap out", it has with making best solution for product like Swith where you need to pay atention at battery life also.

Nah. Nintendo cheaped out on the screen.
They even cheaped out on the Tegra chip, but that's a discussion for another day.

Miyamotoo said:

Of Course that 720p screen is very acceptable for dedicated gaming device in 2017, and impressions of people who actually tried Switch proves that, like I wrote, all people saying that picture on Switch screen is great, very sharp and bright. For record Switch screen has similar pixel density like iPad Pro.

The iPad Pro has a higher pixel density of 264 pixels per inch.
The Switch has a pixel density of 236.87 pixels per inch.

The iPad Pro has an "okay"
2048 x 1536 on the 9.7" model and 2732 x 2048 on the 12.9" model.

iPad Pro is superior... And that is saying something considering the iPad is far from the best, but is also one of the most expensive tablets.

And that's only the resolution. Remember, Switch cheaped out and is isn't using something like OLED/AMOLED.

720P is a last century resolution, it's not okay in my tablets, it's not okay in my phone, it's not okay on my PC, it's not okay on my TV. Why would I think a Nintendo device should be the exception to the rule? News flash: It shouldn't.

How much does an iPad Pro cost?



If the 720p games had proper anti aliasing, it would be ok I guess.
I have to say, Arms for example, seems to look nice.

Problem as always with Nintendo, you don't really know what you are buying when you buy your system on day one.

You have to wait until people are really digging to know what's under the hood, I'm going to wait, especially because I am sure other Switch devices are coming in 2018/2019, I'll get it then.



SpokenTruth said:
NATO said:

Wrong the resolution of 12960p is a rough average based on the active surface area at the back of the eye, that deteriorates with age, nice try though.

p.s if you're going to say 12960p is wrong you might also want to edit the 23040x12960 but too..  doop de doo

Still wrong.  That's not completely how your eyes, or physics, work.  For one, the figure you are referencing is only about a 90 degree view.  For another, it's a locked frame of reference.

The frame of reference can always be further away requiring more pixels to maintain the pixel density required for indistinguishable pixels.

Now if you were to map an image directly onto your retinas, then you would be somewhere around 800-900 megapixels to fill you entire field of vision.  But that doesn't work the same when you are talking about a display because then distance becomes a factor.

I think wegot some wires crossed here, I specifically said the human eye (singular) and resolves, regardless of if something is in focus or not the same amount of data is being processed and thus resolved, if something is 1 meter away or 1 inch away, the same amount of information is being processed, just in the case of 1 inch away the thing being held 1 inch away is taking up more of your field of vision, and thus the detail of that thing is higher, if it's 1 meter away your eyes resolve less of the information from it, thats a granted, but you're still resolving the rest of the scene in that field of view.

And retinal decal is a real thing that effects virtually everyone over time, that decay leads to fluctuations in the amount of light information processed, the figure of 12960p is taken from the average information the retina is processing at any given time looking directly ahead.

Obviously there is no set rule for approximate amounts because genetics play a huge part in your field of view, such as how much of your vision is taken up by your eye socket, nasal bridge, cheek, eye size, depth, spread, etc.

Regardless, if you think it's 130mpx or 800-900 for full field, we can agree to disagree, but point is, either one of those figures is a hell of a lot higher than 360p.



monocle_layton said:
justiceiro said:
That i was always against the idea of a hybrid. It is the worse of both world, with games that are somewhat lost between 2 philosophies.

It's the best of the handheld world for sure. Maybe not the best home, but guess what? Many people are fine with exchanging power for portability.

How a handheld that doen't easily fit in a pocket be the best?

It is as good as vita was at launch.  Tell me again in 3 years if it is as good as you imagined.



"Hardware design isn’t about making the most powerful thing you can.
Today most hardware design is left to other companies, but when you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective."

Gunpei Yoko

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justiceiro said:
monocle_layton said:

It's the best of the handheld world for sure. Maybe not the best home, but guess what? Many people are fine with exchanging power for portability.

How a handheld that doen't easily fit in a pocket be the best?

It is as good as vita was at launch.  Tell me again in 3 years if it is as good as you imagined.

The majority of handheld gaming devices don't fit comfortably in most people's pockets. I'm a relatively large man (6', 200lbs) and I don't wear tight pants and most handheld devices would be uncomfortable for me to carry around, I can't imagine children, women or most men having better luck.

That's what backpacks, purses, suitcases, messanger bags, etc. are for.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

What I'm seeing here is someone recently bought a 4K display and because of that, they feel entitled to a 4K console from Nintendo.

Yes, 720p is the standard from over ten years ago and yes, it wasn't until around 2013 with the release of the PS4 and XBO that 1080p became standardized for consoles.

For anyone thinking of interjecting with "no it wasn't; there were 1080p games on the XB360 and PS3" you already know that 1080p wasn't the standard for graphics and that the vast majority of games on either system either used upscaling or other display techniques to improve a 720p native render signal. This is not one of those arguments, because frankly, the 7th generation and its resolution debates have already been covered.

Switch is 720p (portable mode) because the display is 720p, providing a 1:1 native resolution render. Would a high density pixel display have been better because branded displays like Retina have been around since 2012? Of course, but that's not the question.

Nintendo set the specs for Switch based upon the BoM for a set of hardware they could sell at the margins they wanted for $299. That's what you get, take it or leave it. Being a life long fan of Nintendo games and IPs doesn't entitle one to anything more.

So if we go back to the original thought of "I just bought a 4k display, I deserve a 4k console to take advantage of it..." this is the exact same scenario of 2006 when a lot of consumers bought 1080p displays and bemoaned the 480p resolution of the Wii because they felt entitled to more from their $249 console.



justiceiro said:
monocle_layton said:

It's the best of the handheld world for sure. Maybe not the best home, but guess what? Many people are fine with exchanging power for portability.

How a handheld that doen't easily fit in a pocket be the best?

It is as good as vita was at launch.  Tell me again in 3 years if it is as good as you imagined.

yeah, cause laptops definitely are a failure due to their inability to be carried around...not like we have bags or anything. Guess you're right- if it doesn't fit in your pocket, it's a failure.



monocle_layton said:
justiceiro said:

How a handheld that doen't easily fit in a pocket be the best?

It is as good as vita was at launch.  Tell me again in 3 years if it is as good as you imagined.

yeah, cause laptops definitely are a failure due to their inability to be carried around...not like we have bags or anything. Guess you're right- if it doesn't fit in your pocket, it's a failure.

Still not the best, and you said that was the "best of handheld".



"Hardware design isn’t about making the most powerful thing you can.
Today most hardware design is left to other companies, but when you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective."

Gunpei Yoko

justiceiro said:
monocle_layton said:

yeah, cause laptops definitely are a failure due to their inability to be carried around...not like we have bags or anything. Guess you're right- if it doesn't fit in your pocket, it's a failure.

Still not the best, and you said that was the "best of handheld".

Yes, it is the best of handhelds. You're just nitpicking and trying to dislike a product for the sake of disliking it.

 

I'd get it if the switch was 8 inches and weighed 10 pounds, but it isn't. It's very mobile, similar to how the ds was mobile  (even with how thick it was).