Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo What-If? #4

Would the N64 have been more successful if it was disc based?

Yahoo!! (Yes)
D'oh I missed!! (No)
bdbdbd said:
Werix357 said:

actually from what I've read about the Nintendo 64 is that Nintendo made the N64 deliberately hard to program for in order discourage shovelware developers.

That's not true. Nintendo had it's dreamteam that Nintendo would release their games on N64, but being deliberately hard to program isn't the case because Nintendo had been the one taking the biggest hit. N64 had certain design flaws that made it to have a huge bottleneck.

So Nintendo bungled the design, doesn't surprise me as they have done that on a couple of occasions.



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If N64 had gone with the CD drive it would have been #1 because PlayStation would never have existed.

My 8th gen collection

Ljink96 said:
bigtakilla said:

How did ff vii change the industry?

Most notably CG cutscenes being used to help tell the story. In a game...something on this scale hadn't been done before. It was 1997 when it came out. Work on CG probably started in 94. To put this into perspective the first full length CG movie, Toy Story debuted in 1996. Who would have thought to use this new, emerging tech in a videogame? Now most games use CG cutscenes at least once. FFVii legitimized CG in videogames and set a standard for many games to follow. I could say more but I'm tired, need to get some shuteye 😴

*edit* Weren't there Sega CD games that had cg cutscenes (Lunar and Vay to name 2), and heck, couldn't it be argued that Star Fox had CG cutscenes on Super Nintendo? 



bdbdbd said:

Actually Nintendo's 80's policies were a result of Atari crash and their own experiences in Japan, where Nintendo had no control over it's own market (similar to Atari in the US). 

I think the logic with Playstation getting quickly forgotten was that if Nintendo and Sega had been more friendly for third parties, the gmes had been on Saturn and N64. The game centric microcomputers disappeared in the 90's, and the developers had to go somewhere. Playstation was the easiest to begin with, so that's where they went. Nintendo's problem with the N64 was to focus on the big players of the industry, pretty much the same problem Sony's been having for the last decade. If we put today's things into 90's context, we have Switch that tries to capture the 3rd parties that didn't have a market anymore due to the shift in the market: 90's microcomputers and devs making games for them, today's bankrupted studios that employees are making new ones based on them.

I know that the licensing policies were a result of the video game crash, that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is letting publishers and developers take the entire cost of releasing and even demanding upfront payment for the cartridges that Nintendo themselves had full production rights over and then letting their own magazine do the reviews to gain complete power over 3rd parties. Paired with the strong-arming and downright threats made to retailers to prevent them from selling competing products, and you're left with tactics that are impossible to defend or attribute to the mere safe guarding against a new crash. It's no wonder why developers fled the moment they could and retailers still have a somewhat wonky relationship with them as well.



End of 2016 hardware sales:

Wii U: 15 million. PS4: 54 million. One: 30 million. 3DS: 64.8 million. PSVita: 15.2 million.

bigtakilla said:
Ljink96 said:

Most notably CG cutscenes being used to help tell the story. In a game...something on this scale hadn't been done before. It was 1997 when it came out. Work on CG probably started in 94. To put this into perspective the first full length CG movie, Toy Story debuted in 1996. Who would have thought to use this new, emerging tech in a videogame? Now most games use CG cutscenes at least once. FFVii legitimized CG in videogames and set a standard for many games to follow. I could say more but I'm tired, need to get some shuteye 😴

*edit* Weren't there Sega CD games that had cg cutscenes (Lunar and Vay to name 2), and heck, couldn't it be argued that Star Fox had CG cutscenes on Super Nintendo? 

No. Lunar on the Sega CD had cut-scene similar to what was made for other games of that time, albait a little more fleshed out:



The Saturn and PS versions are the ones that had anime quality cut-scenes (with CG used in certain parts).

Star Fox 64 didn't have any CG cut-scenes as far as I remember.



PSN: Hynad --- NNID: Hynad81 --- Gamertag: Hynad --- Steam: Hynad

Hynad said:
bigtakilla said:

*edit* Weren't there Sega CD games that had cg cutscenes (Lunar and Vay to name 2), and heck, couldn't it be argued that Star Fox had CG cutscenes on Super Nintendo? 

No. Lunar on the Sega CD had cut-scene similar to what was made for other games of that time, albait a little more fleshed out:



The Saturn and PS versions are the ones that had anime quality cut-scenes (with CG used in certain parts).

Star Fox 64 didn't have any CG cut-scenes as far as I remember.

the cutscenes were computer generated. It is in every sense of the word CG.



bigtakilla said:
Hynad said:

No. Lunar on the Sega CD had cut-scene similar to what was made for other games of that time, albait a little more fleshed out:



The Saturn and PS versions are the ones that had anime quality cut-scenes (with CG used in certain parts).

Star Fox 64 didn't have any CG cut-scenes as far as I remember.

the cutscenes were computer generated. It is in every sense of the word CG.

Oh my... LOL!!! Can you reach further?

Every single things you see on screen is computer generated. So that makes Pong CG. But that isn't what we refer to when we talk about CG cut-scenes. You know that. Everybody here knows that. So really, I'm sure what you're trying to achieve here.



PSN: Hynad --- NNID: Hynad81 --- Gamertag: Hynad --- Steam: Hynad

Hynad said:
bigtakilla said:

the cutscenes were computer generated. It is in every sense of the word CG.

Oh my... LOL!!! Can you reach further?

Every single things you see on screen is computer generated. So that makes Pong CG. But that isn't what we refer to when we talk about CG cut-scenes. You know that. Everybody here knows that. So really, I'm sure what you're trying to achieve here.

We are talking about cutscenes, and Lunar and Vays were computer generated unlike Sonic CD and Night Trap which were not. CG cutscenes were a thing before Final Fantasy VII.



bigtakilla said:
Hynad said:

Oh my... LOL!!! Can you reach further?

Every single things you see on screen is computer generated. So that makes Pong CG. But that isn't what we refer to when we talk about CG cut-scenes. You know that. Everybody here knows that. So really, I'm sure what you're trying to achieve here.

We are talking about cutscenes, and Lunar and Vays were computer generated unlike Sonic CD and Night Trap which were not. CG cutscenes were a thing before Final Fantasy VII.

The cutscene in Lunar are not CG cut-scenes. They're the same as the cut-scenes seen in any other games of that time. Images with rudimentary animated facial features at best. They're not videos. They're not what we refer to as CG cut-scenes. 



PSN: Hynad --- NNID: Hynad81 --- Gamertag: Hynad --- Steam: Hynad

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bigtakilla said:
Ljink96 said:

Most notably CG cutscenes being used to help tell the story. In a game...something on this scale hadn't been done before. It was 1997 when it came out. Work on CG probably started in 94. To put this into perspective the first full length CG movie, Toy Story debuted in 1996. Who would have thought to use this new, emerging tech in a videogame? Now most games use CG cutscenes at least once. FFVii legitimized CG in videogames and set a standard for many games to follow. I could say more but I'm tired, need to get some shuteye 😴

*edit* Weren't there Sega CD games that had cg cutscenes (Lunar and Vay to name 2), and heck, couldn't it be argued that Star Fox had CG cutscenes on Super Nintendo? 

Nope, those were FMVs. Which consisted of on the off occasion, studio animation or pixel animation. Starfox simply had hardware that rendered untextured 3D polygons without lighting. FFVII used technology that was cutting edge at the time, Pixar was the only ones who outdid them at that time. It rendred thousands of polygons, with models that were textured, rigged and fully animated with particle effects, etc. Neither of the games you've listed use the tech that FFVII utilized.