Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo What-If? #4

Would the N64 have been more successful if it was disc based?

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Nintendo with discs huh? Well there is one thing that is probably worth pointing out then.

During the NX rumor mill, I heard quite frequently that a possible boost to the device either using cartridges, or being digital only during that brief period that rumor was about, is that disc reading eats up a sizeable part of the console's interior space.

Assuming a similar designed system size wise, that would mean that the 64 would have had less space inside of it to devote to other things, like power.

The 64 was considered the strongest system during the Gen 5 wars. Taking a disc could easily have left the thing weaker than it was in real life, which would have affected the quality of the 1st party titles.

Add in Sony being in general being more socially able, and the 64 would probably have sold more, but in the end games like Ocarina and Star Fox would probably be weaker than they were in our timeline.

The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

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SegataSanshiro said:
Ka-pi96 said:

There's a lot more to it than that. PS4 was simply what people wanted...

PS4 had a pretty weak launch. The hardware was not that disimilar than XBO as a whole,PS4 better ram sure but XBO better CPU but still very similar. XBO had a better launch lineup..hell the Wii U did. The system doesn't do much of anything to standout as hardware. The launch games were pretty weak. Wii U was a mess in every way and MS screwed that presentation so badly and the new policies. Sony didn't have to do much of anything but show up. Hey I like my PS4 don't get me wrong but not like it did anything special. I mean PSN is still a joke and still down a lot with the worst security on the planet. I am a PS+ subscriber btw. Sony is good at marketing,damn good.

Perhaps that's your problem, you're looking for something "special". For me, and it seems the mainstream audience, all that's needed in a console is to play the latest big games, have good graphics, use a regular control scheme and have a decent UI/online account setup. The PS4, unlike the other consoles, checked all those boxes from the moment it was announced.

Games like COD and FIFA don't sell so well for doing something "special", they sell well because they simply offer what people want. IMO innovation is overrated.



Maybe?

I assume your definition of success is its sales numbers when compared to Playstations and SNES.

We know 3rd parties were already pissed at Nintendo, so given the promise of Sony's new entry, they were likely moving away from Nintendo anyways.

Had Nintendo moved to the cheaper disc solution, then it is possible some 3rd parties may have not risked a new platform (Sony) over the proven Nintendo line.

This also ignores that even if Nintendo used discs, Sony also has always allowed media playback, in this case CD music. Nintendo has never allowed this.

Lastly, this ignores any 1st party games that were big hits for Sony, but SEGA always had big hits too and that didn't compare to a combination of Nintendo 1st party and nearly all 3rd party on a single system.

I guess it goes back to 'maybe' for me. At this time Nintendo's model was same as MSony now. High end platform with all games. But I don't think Nintendo would have retained all 3rd party support due to their licensing model. To me that was a bigger factor than cost of carts.

If only Nintendo came out with disc drive attachment for the N64, maybe call it the N64DD?

 

WH-WHATTTT?!?! It actually exists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64DD

They put it out in Japan and released 10 games for it. It flopped, hard. It was supposed to come state-side but they pulled the plug on it in the last minute due to poor sales.

In fact, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was originally developed as an N64DD title, and they had to cut a lot of the content because the game would not fit on a regular N64 cartridge.

I know, not totally the same as supporting CD roms from the get-go, but Nintendo did actually pursue this, and it didn't go too well.



KLXVER said:
Well it would have gotten Final Fantasy 7 and it would be easier and cheaper to port games to, so I don't know.

This all the way. Not making your console developer-friendly and therefore, denying your consumers a multitude of AAA marquee titles? It absolutely hurt them. By about 70 million unit sales. A similar situation happened with the Gamecube and its mini-disc format, although that system strangely had good third-party support. 



It'll be awhile before I figure out how to do one of these. :P 

Ljink96 said:
Yes, without a doubt 64 would have been more successful. FFVII would have been on the system and that game changed the entire industry. The PS1, It was easier to program for, more familiar to devs who just came off the SNES, and due to how cheap CDs were and how much space you could hold, read speed wasn't really that important. All the advantages outweighed the negatives. Sure 64 games looked better than PS1 games...technically, PS1 games that used polygons just have a certain charm over the 64.

So in short, 64 would have been much more successful.

How did ff vii change the industry?



zelmusario said:
KLXVER said:
Well it would have gotten Final Fantasy 7 and it would be easier and cheaper to port games to, so I don't know.

This all the way. Not making your console developer-friendly and therefore, denying your consumers a multitude of AAA marquee titles? It absolutely hurt them. By about 70 million unit sales. A similar situation happened with the Gamecube and its mini-disc format, although that system strangely had good third-party support. 

It was the sixth Generation: arguably the peak of liscensed games. It was also probably the Nintendo console that the closest to it's competition tech wise, with only discs being a issue. No motion, no pad, no carts. 



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

bigtakilla said:
Ljink96 said:
Yes, without a doubt 64 would have been more successful. FFVII would have been on the system and that game changed the entire industry. The PS1, It was easier to program for, more familiar to devs who just came off the SNES, and due to how cheap CDs were and how much space you could hold, read speed wasn't really that important. All the advantages outweighed the negatives. Sure 64 games looked better than PS1 games...technically, PS1 games that used polygons just have a certain charm over the 64.

So in short, 64 would have been much more successful.

How did ff vii change the industry?

Most notably CG cutscenes being used to help tell the story. In a game...something on this scale hadn't been done before. It was 1997 when it came out. Work on CG probably started in 94. To put this into perspective the first full length CG movie, Toy Story debuted in 1996. Who would have thought to use this new, emerging tech in a videogame? Now most games use CG cutscenes at least once. FFVii legitimized CG in videogames and set a standard for many games to follow. I could say more but I'm tired, need to get some shuteye 😴



More successful? Likely.

Better System? I kind of doubt it. The N64 (like almost all Nintendo systems) are very pick up and play friendly. While the Playstation 1 aged absolutely terribly, you can pop in OoT and be met with fair graphics and good load times.

Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda Muda!!!!


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Werix357 said:

actually from what I've read about the Nintendo 64 is that Nintendo made the N64 deliberately hard to program for in order discourage shovelware developers.

That's not true. Nintendo had it's dreamteam that Nintendo would release their games on N64, but being deliberately hard to program isn't the case because Nintendo had been the one taking the biggest hit. N64 had certain design flaws that made it to have a huge bottleneck.

Ka-pi96 said:
SegataSanshiro said:

PS4 had a pretty weak launch. The hardware was not that disimilar than XBO as a whole,PS4 better ram sure but XBO better CPU but still very similar. XBO had a better launch lineup..hell the Wii U did. The system doesn't do much of anything to standout as hardware. The launch games were pretty weak. Wii U was a mess in every way and MS screwed that presentation so badly and the new policies. Sony didn't have to do much of anything but show up. Hey I like my PS4 don't get me wrong but not like it did anything special. I mean PSN is still a joke and still down a lot with the worst security on the planet. I am a PS+ subscriber btw. Sony is good at marketing,damn good.

Perhaps that's your problem, you're looking for something "special". For me, and it seems the mainstream audience, all that's needed in a console is to play the latest big games, have good graphics, use a regular control scheme and have a decent UI/online account setup. The PS4, unlike the other consoles, checked all those boxes from the moment it was announced.

Games like COD and FIFA don't sell so well for doing something "special", they sell well because they simply offer what people want. IMO innovation is overrated.

This is true, but only on the FIFA and COD. There are lots of people that want something else than just your regular COD and FIFA, just like there are people that only care about those two. PS4 was what these people wanted, while none of the three was what everyone else wanted.

potato_hamster said:

If only Nintendo came out with disc drive attachment for the N64, maybe call it the N64DD?

 

WH-WHATTTT?!?! It actually exists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64DD

They put it out in Japan and released 10 games for it. It flopped, hard. It was supposed to come state-side but they pulled the plug on it in the last minute due to poor sales.

In fact, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was originally developed as an N64DD title, and they had to cut a lot of the content because the game would not fit on a regular N64 cartridge.

I know, not totally the same as supporting CD roms from the get-go, but Nintendo did actually pursue this, and it didn't go too well.

The 64DD discs were the same size as the carts were. DD was made to cut costs of the medium to make it more appealing to third parties and more profitable for Nintendo.

KrspaceT said:
zelmusario said:

This all the way. Not making your console developer-friendly and therefore, denying your consumers a multitude of AAA marquee titles? It absolutely hurt them. By about 70 million unit sales. A similar situation happened with the Gamecube and its mini-disc format, although that system strangely had good third-party support. 

It was the sixth Generation: arguably the peak of liscensed games. It was also probably the Nintendo console that the closest to it's competition tech wise, with only discs being a issue. No motion, no pad, no carts. 

This is how it looks if you were born yesterday and don't really know what the devices hold inside. N64/PSX/(PS2) had the same architecture. Sixth gen had had PS2 being similar to PSX and N64, GC similar to PPC Mac and Xbox to IBM PC. Fifth gen was more like 8th, with two similar devices and one that's different. 

You can make anything look different if you just cherrypick the differences.

zelmusario said:
KLXVER said:
Well it would have gotten Final Fantasy 7 and it would be easier and cheaper to port games to, so I don't know.

This all the way. Not making your console developer-friendly and therefore, denying your consumers a multitude of AAA marquee titles? It absolutely hurt them. By about 70 million unit sales. A similar situation happened with the Gamecube and its mini-disc format, although that system strangely had good third-party support. 

The problem with N64 was that it was supposed to have virtually only AAA titles, this was the whole point in the dreamteam. The problem was with the publishers that didn't like the cost of the cartridges - and neither did the customers. Mini-DVD Gamecube used was just as cheap as the competitors discs, just like the Wii's DVD, which is why you saw third parties being friendly with GC and Wii.



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