Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo What-If? #4

Would the N64 have been more successful if it was disc based?

Yahoo!! (Yes)
D'oh I missed!! (No)
SegataSanshiro said:
KLXVER said:

No, Sony worked with Nintendo on a CD add on for the SNES. It didnt work out, so Sony just made the Playstation instead.

Not the whole truth. SEGA of America proposed to work with Sony for Saturn. SOA sent Sony proposed specs. SEGA of Japan hated the idea and wanted to go with their own design. Sony used the specs SOA wanted. The PS1 we got is thanks to SEGA.

===================================================================================================================

As to OP. Fact is this. Even if SEGA didn't go with Sony but made a machine that compared and easy to develop for didn't fuck up with Saturnday marketing and N64 used discs. PS1 NO DOUBT would have gone the way of 3D0 and CDi. PS1 much like PS4 was a success because the competition screwed up so badly.

I seem to remember that Nintendo screwed Sony over due to the terms of the contract that Sont wanted and then went with Philips instead for their CD drive, all this without telling them and Sony only found out when Nintendo announced their new partnership with Philips on Stage. The Playstation was born out of no small amount of spite, it would seem. I bet that this is a decision that Nintendo have regretted more than once through the years and it ended up changing the industry forever.



End of 2016 hardware sales:

Wii U: 15 million. PS4: 54 million. One: 30 million. 3DS: 64.8 million. PSVita: 15.2 million.

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Peh said:
Nintendo sometimes don't think really straight. While they push into one direction, they still throw stones in their path. They did so with the cartridges on N64 and did the same with these mini discs on the Gamecube.

I just don't get it why they are limiting themselfs all the damn time.

Yeah, similar limitation to Xbox 360 using DVD's. The main issues with the medium relate to piracy. Piracy was what killed the Dreamcast in the end, PS2 did not have similar piracy in the early years that the Dreamcast had, because DVD-burners weren't a commodity yet, unlike CD-burners. The mini-DVD has certain size related limitations, but I'm not sure how many games actually needed more space.

Bandorr said:
Didn't the Playstation come around because N64 refused to use CDs?

If Nintendo didn't fall behind the times they wouldn't have lost Final Fantasy most likely. Would have helped it keep third parties and get more.

Probably would have been a monster of a success.

The CD based devices weren't really popular at all on the market (Amiga CD32, Mega CD, 3DO, CDi), so it made perfect sense not to include a CD drive. But not only that, after Nintendo's partnership with Sony and Philips had crashed and burned earlier, I don't know if Nintendo had the time to look for a new partner to develope a CD drive (moreso if N64 was developed the high-speed cart port in mind). The only problem with the cartridge in the end was it's high price. 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Mummelmann said:
SegataSanshiro said:

Not the whole truth. SEGA of America proposed to work with Sony for Saturn. SOA sent Sony proposed specs. SEGA of Japan hated the idea and wanted to go with their own design. Sony used the specs SOA wanted. The PS1 we got is thanks to SEGA.

===================================================================================================================

As to OP. Fact is this. Even if SEGA didn't go with Sony but made a machine that compared and easy to develop for didn't fuck up with Saturnday marketing and N64 used discs. PS1 NO DOUBT would have gone the way of 3D0 and CDi. PS1 much like PS4 was a success because the competition screwed up so badly.

I seem to remember that Nintendo screwed Sony over due to the terms of the contract that Sont wanted and then went with Philips instead for their CD drive, all this without telling them and Sony only found out when Nintendo announced their new partnership with Philips on Stage. The Playstation was born out of no small amount of spite, it would seem. I bet that this is a decision that Nintendo have regretted more than once through the years and it ended up changing the industry forever.

This was Nintendo and Sony planning to develope a console called Play Station together, that would play SNES carts and CD games. However, the contract signed granted Sony 25% of the profits made on games released on the device. After Yamauchi found about it, he wiped his ass with the paper.

Nintendo went to Philips behind Sony's back to develope a CD add-on for the SNES. This too resulted in sort of problems, and in the end Nintendo, Philips and Sony were developing the CD add-on together - until this project crashed and burned as well. Not only this have something to do with Playstation, but also CDi is a "SNES CD-drive", and the cover in minidiscs comes from this project.

I don't know has Nintendo regretted what happened for two reasons: 1. All this stuff was for devices that would be just an upgraded SNES, meaning deviced that had preceded N64/PS/Saturn anyway. 2. It sounds naivistic that Sony would not enter the console market anyway. They had made the same notion Yamauchi made while wiping his ass with the Sony contract; why should they share the profits.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

For a cheapskate like me the N64 was awesome here in the UK. They launched at £250 a ridiculous price which annoyed a lot of people and it had some huge reduction to £150 I think pretty quickly. It didn't seem to take long before the console was seen for less than £100 and some of the cartridge games got heavily discounted very quickly. I remember buying many cartridge games for around £10 or less. Loved the system and the games and the value was amazing. TV output quality was poor though.

The Sega Saturn was also a dead man walking console with similar discounting.

The trendy people all had their Playstations which I did get but was late to the party as the N64 kept me so busy. By the time I got to have my own Playstation the games were super cheap for that too. Not that I bought many games for the playstation cough...

I'm not sure a cd drive would have saved the N64 because at the time it was more about Sony's brilliant marketing that sold their console. Sticking a cd drive in the n64 would have meant not only the cost of the cd drive but perhaps a few more upgrades here and there. Also here in the uk the N64 only really had composite and s-video output support but the playstation had full RGB output which meant when you went into a game store the playstation graphics looked vivid and amazing and the N64 looked dull and low resolution. You could walk in planning to buy a N64 and walk out with a playstation such was the difference. That was my experience anyway.



Mummelmann said:
SegataSanshiro said:

Not the whole truth. SEGA of America proposed to work with Sony for Saturn. SOA sent Sony proposed specs. SEGA of Japan hated the idea and wanted to go with their own design. Sony used the specs SOA wanted. The PS1 we got is thanks to SEGA.

===================================================================================================================

As to OP. Fact is this. Even if SEGA didn't go with Sony but made a machine that compared and easy to develop for didn't fuck up with Saturnday marketing and N64 used discs. PS1 NO DOUBT would have gone the way of 3D0 and CDi. PS1 much like PS4 was a success because the competition screwed up so badly.

I seem to remember that Nintendo screwed Sony over due to the terms of the contract that Sont wanted and then went with Philips instead for their CD drive, all this without telling them and Sony only found out when Nintendo announced their new partnership with Philips on Stage. The Playstation was born out of no small amount of spite, it would seem. I bet that this is a decision that Nintendo have regretted more than once through the years and it ended up changing the industry forever.

Nintendo didn't screw Sony. Sony wanted nearly all control and profits. After the PS project with Nintendo it basically was canned. Ken wanted to keep it alive but the final product is using the specs SEGA of America proposed to Sony. Had Nintendo used Discs and Saturn was not so poorly designed PS1 would have been a footnote inhistory. PS1 only had success because SEGA made a system impossible to develop for and N64 used carts. PS4 became a success out of the gate because MS and Nintendo messed up not much more to it than that.



SegataSanshiro said:
Mummelmann said:

I seem to remember that Nintendo screwed Sony over due to the terms of the contract that Sont wanted and then went with Philips instead for their CD drive, all this without telling them and Sony only found out when Nintendo announced their new partnership with Philips on Stage. The Playstation was born out of no small amount of spite, it would seem. I bet that this is a decision that Nintendo have regretted more than once through the years and it ended up changing the industry forever.

Nintendo didn't screw Sony. Sony wanted nearly all control and profits. After the PS project with Nintendo it basically was canned. Ken wanted to keep it alive but the final product is using the specs SEGA of America proposed to Sony. Had Nintendo used Discs and Saturn was not so poorly designed PS1 would have been a footnote inhistory. PS1 only had success because SEGA made a system impossible to develop for and N64 used carts. PS4 became a success out of the gate because MS and Nintendo messed up not much more to it than that.

There's a lot more to it than that. PS4 was simply what people wanted...



Ka-pi96 said:
SegataSanshiro said:

Nintendo didn't screw Sony. Sony wanted nearly all control and profits. After the PS project with Nintendo it basically was canned. Ken wanted to keep it alive but the final product is using the specs SEGA of America proposed to Sony. Had Nintendo used Discs and Saturn was not so poorly designed PS1 would have been a footnote inhistory. PS1 only had success because SEGA made a system impossible to develop for and N64 used carts. PS4 became a success out of the gate because MS and Nintendo messed up not much more to it than that.

There's a lot more to it than that. PS4 was simply what people wanted...

PS4 had a pretty weak launch. The hardware was not that disimilar than XBO as a whole,PS4 better ram sure but XBO better CPU but still very similar. XBO had a better launch lineup..hell the Wii U did. The system doesn't do much of anything to standout as hardware. The launch games were pretty weak. Wii U was a mess in every way and MS screwed that presentation so badly and the new policies. Sony didn't have to do much of anything but show up. Hey I like my PS4 don't get me wrong but not like it did anything special. I mean PSN is still a joke and still down a lot with the worst security on the planet. I am a PS+ subscriber btw. Sony is good at marketing,damn good.



SegataSanshiro said:
Mummelmann said:

I seem to remember that Nintendo screwed Sony over due to the terms of the contract that Sont wanted and then went with Philips instead for their CD drive, all this without telling them and Sony only found out when Nintendo announced their new partnership with Philips on Stage. The Playstation was born out of no small amount of spite, it would seem. I bet that this is a decision that Nintendo have regretted more than once through the years and it ended up changing the industry forever.

Nintendo didn't screw Sony. Sony wanted nearly all control and profits. After the PS project with Nintendo it basically was canned. Ken wanted to keep it alive but the final product is using the specs SEGA of America proposed to Sony. Had Nintendo used Discs and Saturn was not so poorly designed PS1 would have been a footnote inhistory. PS1 only had success because SEGA made a system impossible to develop for and N64 used carts. PS4 became a success out of the gate because MS and Nintendo messed up not much more to it than that.

Selective memory much? Rewritten history? What's your deal?

"We had the Sony guys and our engineers in the United States come up with specs for what this next optical-based hardware system would be. And with these specs, Olafsson, Schulhof and I went to Japan, and we met with Sony’s Ken Kutaragi. He said it was a great idea, and as we all lose money on hardware, let's jointly market a single system – the Sega/Sony hardware system – and whatever loss we make, we split that loss."

Sega of America didn't come up with the specs alone. 

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/sega-and-sony-almost-teamed-up-on-a-console

For some reason, your comments read more like hate pieces against Sony than anything factual. You make it clear that you can't possibly think Sony has any merit of their own, and the only reason they succeed is because the others messed up... 



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CaptainExplosion said:

Nintendo's decision to use cartridges for the N64, instead of discs, drove a lot of third parties away from the system. Those who stuck around and compressed sound and video onto certain cartridges (Like Resident Evil 2 or Battle for Naboo) didn't quite make the situation better.

Would the N64 have been better off with CD rom technology like the PlayStation and Saturn? Or would that hurt the system in the long run?

Probably not, considering the PlayStation was a monstrous success, despite most games on the system being bogged by load times.

actually from what I've read about the Nintendo 64 is that Nintendo made the N64 deliberately hard to program for in order discourage shovelware developers.



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This is such a lame what if scenario, its been discussed a million times on this site. Come up with some new and original ones.

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