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Forums - Politics Discussion - Turkey's Erdoğan approves bill giving him sweeping new powers

the_dark_lewd on 15 March 2017
vivster said:
I still think that that military coup was instigated by him to gain more power. And now we finally see the end goal.

I think that was obvious the second he started firing university professors in response to it.



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Turkish on 15 March 2017
palou said:
Turkish said:

Why would they even ask that? Dont they believe in free speech? I thought Netherlands was a democracy, or does it only apply to them and their friends. There have been rallies elsewhere in Europe and they happened without any problems, also many times in the past.

The concept of sovreignity implies that foreign political enities do not influence the democratic process.

 

The desire to keep dutch elections to the dutch is not against democracy.

 

The dutch will not send people to Turkey to hold political rallies the week before elections.

It wasn't just Netherlands that blocked them, also Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Freedom of speech is dead in Europe.

Goatseye said:
Turkish said:

Why would they even ask that? Dont they believe in free speech? I thought Netherlands was a democracy, or does it only apply to them and their friends. There have been rallies elsewhere in Europe and they happened without any problems, also many times in the past.

The military didn't support the coup, only a tiny fraction, which was controlled by Gulenists who have their own plans and agenda for the country.

1- Because it's their country and Turkey political campaigns shouldn't be held when Netherlands is preparing for election day.

2- A democracy means that when anarchists forces try to disturb the rule of the law, they're properly dealt with. Before any group tries to assemble for a demonstration in any part of Western civilization, they normaly get local government permission to do so, especially, the ones that "happens with no problems".

Err that's no excuse to ban freedom of speech whenever you see fit. You cant claim to be a democracy and ban freedom of speech for people and opinions you dislike. Netherlands is no different than Erdogan in this regard, banning opposing views.

The ministers of a Nato ally come visit you, not North Korea, you show them hospitality, not treat them like criminals. The concept of hospitality is very strong in Turkish culture, maybe it's a thing the West can learn from them.

I'm no Erdogan supporter, but even opposition parties in Turkey have condemned this move by Europe. Europe's hate against Turkey is deep rooted and shown its ugly face.

Sharu said:
Turkish said:

Why would they even ask that? Dont they believe in free speech? I thought Netherlands was a democracy, or does it only apply to them and their friends. There have been rallies elsewhere in Europe and they happened without any problems, also many times in the past.

The military didn't support the coup, only a tiny fraction, which was controlled by Gulenists who have their own plans and agenda for the country.

You see now how 2-faced the West is. They can smile to you, shake hands, and then hit you in the back.

They did it with Gaddafy, who were accepted by the West. To Asad. Now trying to do the same to Erdogan.

Also I glad that our countries were smart enough to not let incident with Russian jet arise to a direct confrontation between Russia and Turkey. I hope our countries relations will improve.

Agreed. It's funny how they talk about freedom of speech when it only matters to them and their POV.



Sharu on 15 March 2017
Safiir said:
Sharu said:

You see now how 2-faced the West is. They can smile to you, shake hands, and then hit you in the back.

They did it with Gaddafy, who were accepted by the West. To Asad. Now trying to do the same to Erdogan.

Also I glad that our countries were smart enough to not let incident with Russian jet arise to a direct confrontation between Russia and Turkey. I hope our countries relations will improve.

Sooo...when was the last time foreign diplomats went to Russia in order to organize rallies during a major russian election?

USA ambassador in 2011. Between parlament and president election. 



S.Peelman on 15 March 2017

Ah so there is a passing mention of this Netherlands/Turkey incident here on VGC. Well, at least I can say my city was in the news again.

Also I, and most people here in this country probably, couldn't care less if Turkey votes themselves into a dictatorship, but they didn't want to play by our rules, and then proceeded to insults and threats and tried to sneak in a second minister through the back-door actively misleading Dutch authorities (on every level). They were right to get kicked out.



VGPolyglot on 15 March 2017
Goatseye said:
VGPolyglot said:

I oppose representative democracy too in a favour of direct democracy, but I want attempting to defend Erdogan. You decided to bring up anarchists for some bizarre reason.

It's not bizarre because Turkey was undermining NL's sovereignty .

Also, I believe that this move was premeditated to help Geert Wilders. Whom, have the same goal as Kremlin to topple the EU.

Then I don't think you know what anarchism means.



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VGPolyglot on 15 March 2017

Turkish :

The ministers of a Nato ally come visit you, not North Korea, you show them hospitality, not treat them like criminals. The concept of hospitality is very strong in Turkish culture, maybe it's a thing the West can learn from them.

 

Well, considering that NATO is made up of war criminals I'd say that every one of the regimes should be traded like one.



palou on 15 March 2017
Turkish said:
palou said:

The concept of sovreignity implies that foreign political enities do not influence the democratic process.

 

The desire to keep dutch elections to the dutch is not against democracy.

 

The dutch will not send people to Turkey to hold political rallies the week before elections.

It wasn't just Netherlands that blocked them, also Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Freedom of speech is dead in Europe.

Goatseye said:

1- Because it's their country and Turkey political campaigns shouldn't be held when Netherlands is preparing for election day.

2- A democracy means that when anarchists forces try to disturb the rule of the law, they're properly dealt with. Before any group tries to assemble for a demonstration in any part of Western civilization, they normaly get local government permission to do so, especially, the ones that "happens with no problems".

Err that's no excuse to ban freedom of speech whenever you see fit. You cant claim to be a democracy and ban freedom of speech for people and opinions you dislike. Netherlands is no different than Erdogan in this regard, banning opposing views.

The ministers of a Nato ally come visit you, not North Korea, you show them hospitality, not treat them like criminals. The concept of hospitality is very strong in Turkish culture, maybe it's a thing the West can learn from them.

I'm no Erdogan supporter, but even opposition parties in Turkey have condemned this move by Europe. Europe's hate against Turkey is deep rooted and shown its ugly face.

Sharu said:

You see now how 2-faced the West is. They can smile to you, shake hands, and then hit you in the back.

They did it with Gaddafy, who were accepted by the West. To Asad. Now trying to do the same to Erdogan.

Also I glad that our countries were smart enough to not let incident with Russian jet arise to a direct confrontation between Russia and Turkey. I hope our countries relations will improve.

Agreed. It's funny how they talk about freedom of speech when it only matters to them and their POV.

For historic reasons (mainly that Hitler actually got elected, democraticaly), Germany has, by the way, always been open to censorship to prevent spread of violence/hate/etc... , in contrary to most of the western world.

 

Also, it is by the way NOT normal for uninvited foreign politicians to organize demonstrations in a country other than their own. It's not something that any of those mentionned countries ever did.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Goatseye on 15 March 2017
Turkish said:

Goatseye said:

1- Because it's their country and Turkey political campaigns shouldn't be held when Netherlands is preparing for election day.

2- A democracy means that when anarchists forces try to disturb the rule of the law, they're properly dealt with. Before any group tries to assemble for a demonstration in any part of Western civilization, they normaly get local government permission to do so, especially, the ones that "happens with no problems".

Err that's no excuse to ban freedom of speech whenever you see fit. You cant claim to be a democracy and ban freedom of speech for people and opinions you dislike. Netherlands is no different than Erdogan in this regard, banning opposing views.

The ministers of a Nato ally come visit you, not North Korea, you show them hospitality, not treat them like criminals. The concept of hospitality is very strong in Turkish culture, maybe it's a thing the West can learn from them.

I'm no Erdogan supporter, but even opposition parties in Turkey have condemned this move by Europe. Europe's hate against Turkey is deep rooted and shown its ugly face.

How can you talk about Freedom of speech after what Erdogan has done? He transformed Turkey into an autocracy due to a false flag perpetrated by him and his circle?

Are you comparing Erdogan's purging attitude with Netherland's exercise of law within their constitution? 

And your ministers did act like criminals by forcefully entering the country. 



Goatseye on 15 March 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Goatseye said:

It's not bizarre because Turkey was undermining NL's sovereignty .

Also, I believe that this move was premeditated to help Geert Wilders. Whom, have the same goal as Kremlin to topple the EU.

Then I don't think you know what anarchism means.

What is it?



VGPolyglot on 15 March 2017
Goatseye said:
VGPolyglot said:

Then I don't think you know what anarchism means.

What is it?

It's a political ideology against hierarchy and unjustified authority. That means that anarchists oppose the capitalist system and the state because they create unfair inequality and a hierarchy instead of a horizontal, cooperative system. The people that are protesting in the Netherlands support the existence of the Turkish state, so they cannot be anarchists.