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Forums - Politics Discussion - Jonathan Blow Speaks Out For Free Speech

GribbleGrunger on 03 February 2017
Zkuq said:

Undermining democracy is a much more severe problem than what you're describing, no matter how you spin it. Also, that's an integration problem, not an immigration one - if it's even true. Such serious claims require evidence. Do you have any reliable evidence to back up your claims?

I only had video of it happening but unfortunately searching Youtube no longer gives me those videos ... Don't know how that happened. I could find a couple though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y597ZkuhhsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boRj3kyVCa4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osqx2MyfdnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ebqZ-z2ts8

The second one might just resonate more but that should give you a quick taster.



 

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monocle_layton on 03 February 2017

American politics sucks. It's basically a right vs left WWE match with horrible followers on both sides.

Seriously need a change



VGPolyglot on 03 February 2017

Okay, a few things to address here:

1. It's impossible to not be violent if you're trying to protect yourself from a violent regime. When the American military kills thousands of people a year, and when the police force shoots and kills people on a daily basis, and attacks protesters with tear gas and pepperspray, are people just supposed to be peaceful?

2. Also, regarding the fact the protesters are destroying property: yes, it's not the ideal solution, but they've been pretty much backed into a corner. Martin Luther King said himself that "A riot is the language of the unheard", meaning that all forms of peaceful protesting have gotten them nowhere. Blacks are still unfairly treated, women's rights are still being taken away and Muslims and Hispanics are still being demonized. Now, the only way that people seem to pay attention is through riots.

3. In regards to "free speech", what do we mean by that? We should let people say whatever they want, no matter how racist it is? Because surely giving fascists "free speech" and trying to come up with a "peaceful solution" surely convinced the Nazis to be peace-loving people who cared about the rights of others, right?



VGPolyglot on 03 February 2017
GribbleGrunger said:
Zkuq said:

He's undermined democracy, and he's also happily continued an executive order on immigration despite a federal judge finding it unlawful (i.e. he's acting against the law).

I'm a socialist but even I know when something needs to be done, even if it goes against my leftist credentials. We've got to be careful not to conflate idealism with reality. I would imagine Trump's immigration policy is in some way shaped by what's happening in Europe at the moment. In Luton (UK) for instance, there are now Sharia law zones were Muslims (not extremists) are stopping people in the street and telling them they can't dress in a particular way or they can't carry alcohol in the streets because 'this area is a Sharia law area'. They are marching through the streets with banners declaring Britain is theirs. In other parts of Europe it's much worse. It just seems to make sense to me to make sure this doesn't happen in other countries and the only way it can be prevented is to have strict border controls until a better system can be put in place. It's just sensible but unfortunately it can also look insensative.

OK, so what do you mean by socialist? I can assume that you're at most a social democrat, because there's no way that a socialist would support Trump, because he's an authoritarian capitalist that intends on keeping the American empire afloat.



VGPolyglot on 03 February 2017
monocle_layton said:
American politics sucks. It's basically a right vs left WWE match with horrible followers on both sides.

Seriously need a change

I wish it was left vs right. Unfortunately the left are almost entirely voiceless, so it's generally center vs right.



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NobleTeam360 on 03 February 2017

Wow,never thought I'd agree with this guy.



WolfpackN64 on 03 February 2017
Aura7541 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
To be honest, Milo wasn't there for civilized conversation and debate, he was there to verbally insult people. And he got shut down. You want civilized debate? Be civilized.
Trump's threat towards Berkeley U is more worrying.

Not all uncivil activity are equal. Rioting causes more damage than verbal insults, especially considering what the rioters did in the campus...

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.



VGPolyglot on 03 February 2017
WolfpackN64 said:
Aura7541 said:

Not all uncivil activity are equal. Rioting causes more damage than verbal insults, especially considering what the rioters did in the campus...

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.

It's ironic that when poor people are getting poisoned in Flint, when blacks are getting shot to death by police, and when hates crimes are committed against Muslims, etc. they turn a blind eye, but when a window's destroyed everyone is in uproar because apparently property is a lot more important than people.



VGPolyglot on 03 February 2017
coolbeans said:
VGPolyglot said:

It's ironic that when poor people are getting poisoned in Flint, when blacks are getting shot to death by police, and when hates crimes are committed against Muslims, etc. they turn a blind eye, but when a window's destroyed everyone is in uproar because apparently property is a lot more important than people.

Yeah, that's completely blot out the early reports of violence also accompanied with said property damage at UC Berkley.  

As I said before, it's impossible to be peaceful against a violent enemy. The American state, the capitalist system, the patriarchy, etc. is inherently violent and if you try to be peaceful in your resisatance you'll either get nowhere or you'll get beat up yourself.



Aura7541 on 03 February 2017
WolfpackN64 said:
Aura7541 said:

Not all uncivil activity are equal. Rioting causes more damage than verbal insults, especially considering what the rioters did in the campus...

Depends, if that shut down that Milo, it was probably worth it. Violence is unfortunatly the only thing the far-right understands and they should not besurprised when they get it.

Verbal insults weren't responsible for the property damage and physical altercations. The people who did the rioting were the ones responsible. You respond to dissenting opinions with argumentation, not violence. Violence is justified in form of self-defense if violence is being done against you.