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Forums - Politics Discussion - Businessman at JFK assaults Muslim airline employee

Lawlight said:
Is this one of those fake hate crimes that's been going around lately?

 

Lawlight said:
ebw said:

What a priori evidence do you have that it's fake?  In Bayesian terms, what's the ratio of fake hate crimes to actual reported hate crimes?  Is it significantly greater than, say, 5% or are you just in the habit of interjecting "fake news" whenever someone reports a crime that doesn't fit some narrative?  It's really unproductive to take that as a default stance unless you have some statistics to back it up.

For what it's worth, this follow-up story consists of verifiable claims.  I personally confirmed a couple of the salient points using archive.org:

http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2017/01/nitrofreeze_website_removes_me.html

It doesn't confirm any details of the case, but the sudden (some time within the nearest available sampling window) retroactive and silent removal of a July blog post is strong evidence that something happened with Robin Rhodes that the company considers to be an embarrassment.

Where did I say it was fake?

 



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Lawlight said:
Is this one of those fake hate crimes that's been going around lately?

I bet you wouldn't say that if this post was about a Muslim woman assaulting a trump supporter



A lot of these racist idiots now have the courage to insult or even attack people. They seem to think they're allowed to do these things now that Trump is their president.



Edellus said:
I don't think that man understands what Trump promised as for immigration and muslims. AFAIK, he promised to ban immigration from certain nations where radical islam is believed to have a worrying amount of support (Libya, Somalia, Iraq, etc.). Considering that woman is already in the US and working at the JFK (so pressumably an already legal immigrant), she shouldn't be affected by Trump's new policies.

I wonder if he lost a friend to a terrorist attack, has lived too long with terrorist attacks fear or something of the like that could have caused him to be this prejudicial and hateful towards any muslim. I don't believe this level of hate grows out of nowhere.

Actually this level of hate usually grows out of being frustrated with your own life and searching for a convinient scrapegoat. Usually, a group of people they themselves have had little to no exposure to get sacrificed. The media might help with a bit of scary reporting here and there.

It's usually the most homogeneous parts of society that are the most racist, for example. Whereas people who have had actual exposure to diffrent ethnecities/cultures are usually more accepting and tolerant. It makes sense if you think about it, you wouldn't want to think of your nice neighbor or the lovely shop assistant as the bad guy, causing all problems in your life, now if that neighbor happens to be chinese and the shop assistant a muslim you kinda don't have a reason to think all of them are rotten. But if you're from an area where all the people surrounding you are from your own ethnicity and culture the jump to thinking all people that differ from you in ways that feel alienating to you must be ruining your life is much smaller, however little actual evidence there may be for it.

Obviously if you have the need to focus your frustration on a group of people as a whole you're also not that prone to intelligent thought, reflection and differentiation anyways and would not like to look at your own failures or the systems failures as causes of your frustration either. A lot of these people have been failed by the US education system wich does not provide any challenge to their views either.

I'm not saying it's impossible he's had bad expieriences with muslims before, but for the majority of hate crimes it's highly unlikely that a tragic backstory drove them to do it. People who gay bash have not all been raped by gay men and the people who strung black people into trees have not had their children abducted by black people either. They were just frustrated people with a sense of entilement and superiority scared of loosing their superior rights or lashing out at something to blame their frustrations on.



Turkish said:
Eagle367 said:

So shouting=kicking=looking? Are you stupid or something

Alternative facts.

Ayi ayi ayi! These alternative facts will be the death of me



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

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JWeinCom said:

Except that his rhetoric towards Muslims in the US has been quite disturbing.  He's basically said they're in charge of making sure the "bad" ones don't do anything, making a sort of guilt by association.  Worse, he's repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that thousands of Muslims were celebrating during 9/11.  This kind of fear mongering can help create a hostile environment.

You might say that muslims have started to be treated in non-muslim countries almost exactly the same way non-muslims are treated in muslim countries.



the_dark_lewd said:
JWeinCom said:

Except that his rhetoric towards Muslims in the US has been quite disturbing.  He's basically said they're in charge of making sure the "bad" ones don't do anything, making a sort of guilt by association.  Worse, he's repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that thousands of Muslims were celebrating during 9/11.  This kind of fear mongering can help create a hostile environment.

You might say that muslims have started to be treated in non-muslim countries almost exactly the same way non-muslims are treated in muslim countries.

You might say that you're trying to completely avoid the issue of the President spewing hateful propaganda that makes US citizens less safe.



JWeinCom said:
Locknuts said:
Hope this guy gets a decent punishment for this. And the guy is wrong. Drumpf won't do anything to peaceful muslims in the USA. He'll brutally slaughter islamic terrorists though.

Except that his rhetoric towards Muslims in the US has been quite disturbing.  He's basically said they're in charge of making sure the "bad" ones don't do anything, making a sort of guilt by association.  Worse, he's repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that thousands of Muslims were celebrating during 9/11.  This kind of fear mongering can help create a hostile environment.

I can't find any report of Trump saying that muslims should make sure that the radical ones behave, or something of the sort. Mind providing a link? Maybe it was in one of his speeches but it seems the media didn't pick up on it a lot. That or I need to improve my Google skills. I think it is best to link the quotes, as for just "basically" quoting can be very missleading. Just from what you said he said, I imagine he meant that moderate muslims should speak more publicly against radical muslims, which, if the case, it is for their own good as they'd be publicly condemning and seperating themselves from radical muslims.

As for that thousands of muslims were celebrating during 9/11, I've found some reports, from cops, residents and even one by CNN (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4). Now, if those reports are correct, it seems there is no evidence of these celebrations happening by the thousands, which might be an exaggeraton, but some still happened, aparently.



Edellus said:
JWeinCom said:

Except that his rhetoric towards Muslims in the US has been quite disturbing.  He's basically said they're in charge of making sure the "bad" ones don't do anything, making a sort of guilt by association.  Worse, he's repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that thousands of Muslims were celebrating during 9/11.  This kind of fear mongering can help create a hostile environment.

I can't find any report of Drumpf saying that muslims should make sure that the radical ones behave, or something of the sort. Mind providing a link? Maybe it was in one of his speeches but it seems the media didn't pick up on it a lot. That or I need to improve my Google skills. I think it is best to link the quotes, as for just "basically" quoting can be very missleading. Just from what you said he said, I imagine he meant that moderate muslims should speak more publicly against radical muslims, which, if the case, it is for their own good as they'd be publicly condemning and seperating themselves from radical muslims.

As for that thousands of muslims were celebrating during 9/11, I've found some reports, from cops, residents and even one by CNN (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4). Now, if those reports are correct, it seems there is no evidence of these celebrations happening by the thousands, which might be an exaggeraton, but some still happened, aparently.

It was part of a rambling semi-coherent response to a question on how to avoid the spread of Islamaphobia in the US.  I'm not going to quote it, cause it would be rather difficult to transcribe, but I'll post a link.  Here's a similar statement in an interview with Piers Morgan.

"When they see trouble, they have to report it. They are not reporting it; they are absolutely not reporting it, and that’s a big problem.  It’s like they’re protecting each other, but they’re really doing very bad damage, and they have to open up to society. They have to report the bad ones.”

So, it goes beyond just saying that they just need to be vigilant, it is that they are actively refusing to report it, which makes them complicit. 

There are certainly Muslims in the US who support terrorism.  No doubt about it.  But there is a huge difference between some Muslims who support terrorism and thousands celebrating in the streets of New Jersey.  Trump was corrected several times and still has stands by this despite the fact that, like you, nobody could find any evidence.

This is not just a harmless exaggeration.  It is a lie, and one that serves to spread hatred of American citizens.  

http://fortune.com/2016/10/09/presidential-debate-donald-trump-muslims/



naruball said:
Lawlight said:
Is this one of those fake hate crimes that's been going around lately?

Report of anti-Trump people doing something bad: "has to be true", "typical liberal preaching tolerance"

Report of pro-Trump people doing something bad: "Is this one of those fake hate crimes that's been going around lately"

 

Makes sense.

Well pro-Trump people haven't been making up hate crimes.