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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Observations of a Switch Supporter - Misunderstanding of Product and Services

Fusioncode on 13 January 2017
dongo8 said:

I'm sorry there are so many Nintendo Switch topics on this forum, I really am

And yet here you are



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

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Qwark on 13 January 2017

Seems like a PS4 pro is indeed cheaper than a fully set up Switch in Europe. 32GB isn't much to write home about if you want to download games and the occasional patch. Especially since a part of that 32GB is probably reserved for the system itself.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Platina on 13 January 2017

Splatoon online isn't the greateast, but works really well, along with Mario Kart

Just Smash is the main issue but I didn't have too big issues with online so this paid feature is really disappointing



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mountaindewslave on 13 January 2017

I somewhat agree on the cartridge argument- I don't necessarily think the small storage space is revelant (well for people who like to buy physical media haha).

 

However I totally disagree about the online practices. A) Nintendo's online usually sucks and isn't at the level that anyone would want to pay for (I certainliy would not pay for my 3DS online connection), and B) Nintendo was somewhat refreshing by not charging for online. The possibility that they are charging aggressively high for dumb extra tech on their new system (my god, those Joycons) AND charging high for extra accessories but then also not including any pack in games AND charging for online activity?

I mean come on now, at some point you have to ask, what IS Nintendo doing for their fans? I am a huge Nintendo fan, but the announcements lately have seemed very uncharacteristic of them and frankly greedy. Expensive accessories, charging for their crappy online service, having few games in development, being stingy with the virtual store- These are ways to alienate fans or even lose fans



outlawauron on 14 January 2017
RolStoppable said:
outlawauron said:

This is true, but also in that PS4/X1 all have 500GB+ so the devs are given outs to being lazy with assets and compression. They don't have to optimize those things because space isn't a concern.

Yeah, and?

For that argument to hold any real merit, we would have to assume that PS4/XB1 games will be ported in droves to the Switch. What we'll realistically see is these three types of developers:

1. Nintendo - They know how to work with space.
2. Japanese third parties moving on from 3DS and Vita - They are used to ship working games.
3. Western third parties who port seventh gen games - If by this point their games still need patching... can those guys really suck that hard?

Uh, I was agreeing with you in that storage space isn't always 1:1 across platforms. Just because a game is 50GB+ on PS4 doesn't mean it has to be on all platforms. Especially on a different format with better read speeds, they can compress more. If compression because a concern, then devs can spend time on it. It hasn't been a real concern on PS4/X1 because of storage capacity on every model + bluray.



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Zkuq on 14 January 2017

One word: Steam. There's no misunderstanding about the online service. It can be free. Nintendo could probably more than make up the development and upkeep costs by investing in digital distribution. They just want to maximize profits even further.



dongo8 on 17 January 2017
Conina said:
dongo8 said:

I'm sorry there are so many Nintendo Switch topics on this forum, I really am, but I didn't see one addressing what is to me a very important point. The Nintendo Switch has what many call "Low Storage Capacity" and in a sense you are right, compared to current gen consoles the storage capacity IS low. But now consider this, the current gen also has to copy games to the harddrive on the system in order to even play the game using a DISC, so there are often 50-60 gb games that are saved on our current gen consoles eating up space. The storage on the Switch is 32 gb, yes but it is not the typical storage that you get with an XBox One and a PS4.

The main and most important difference is the fact that the Switch uses cartridges for its games. This makes it possible to have save data store in small capacities right on the gamecard, but also makes it a very fast read/write system and it runs right from the cartridge itself. No writing elsewhere and reading from there, so the 50 gb games that may pop up (I don't know what the official capacity is on the game cards) will not need to be written on the system, that would be used for game updates, and maybe some save file stuff.

The problem with the 32 gb storage really arises for download only gamers, but again this is easily rectified with a micro SD card. Nobody really WANTS to have to buy separate storage and everyone thinks that it is cheesy to have a system release with insufficient storage, but I have had to purchase an external harddrive for my XBox One as well, so really it's the same idea. The nice thing is the storage is super fast-reading, even in the expandable form, much faster than a harddrive on an XBox One or PS4. Download only gamers will definitely need to expand, but it is not a huge price wall or anything to purchase a new SD card.

So, do you have benchmarks for that claim? Boot time from a cold start? Loading times of Switch games? Transfer speeds of sequential and random reads and writes?

Not every flash memory is fast. How do we know if the internal memory of the Switch is faster than the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One? How do we know if the reading from the Switch game carts is faster than reading data from the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One? Many MicroSD cards are also slower than the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One, especially if you want to save some bucks.

A couple of things, the read speed of the PS4 and Xbox One hard drives is max 6gb/s at stock levels. SSDs as well as SD cards are much faster than this. The cartridges that the Switch will be using are also flash memory and will most definitely outperform 5400 RPM or even 7200 RPM hard drives. It's not a question of if, to me. Of course we do not have official benchmarks yet for the Switch cartridges, but you know as soon as the thing releases there will be side by sides of loading times and consistency and such. Flash memory has come a long way and definitely has surpassed stock hard drives in many ways. Only time will tell though, so we will know in probably a couple of months when the Switch is in everybody's hands.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

Conina on 18 January 2017
dongo8 said:
Conina said:

So, do you have benchmarks for that claim? Boot time from a cold start? Loading times of Switch games? Transfer speeds of sequential and random reads and writes?

Not every flash memory is fast. How do we know if the internal memory of the Switch is faster than the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One? How do we know if the reading from the Switch game carts is faster than reading data from the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One? Many MicroSD cards are also slower than the HDDs in the PS4 and Xbox One, especially if you want to save some bucks.

A couple of things, the read speed of the PS4 and Xbox One hard drives is max 6gb/s at stock levels. SSDs as well as SD cards are much faster than this. The cartridges that the Switch will be using are also flash memory and will most definitely outperform 5400 RPM or even 7200 RPM hard drives. It's not a question of if, to me. Of course we do not have official benchmarks yet for the Switch cartridges, but you know as soon as the thing releases there will be side by sides of loading times and consistency and such. Flash memory has come a long way and definitely has surpassed stock hard drives in many ways. Only time will tell though, so we will know in probably a couple of months when the Switch is in everybody's hands.

The cartridges that the Vita uses are also flash memory. Nevertheless some games take up to 2 minutes to load.



dongo8 on 18 January 2017
Conina said:
dongo8 said:

A couple of things, the read speed of the PS4 and Xbox One hard drives is max 6gb/s at stock levels. SSDs as well as SD cards are much faster than this. The cartridges that the Switch will be using are also flash memory and will most definitely outperform 5400 RPM or even 7200 RPM hard drives. It's not a question of if, to me. Of course we do not have official benchmarks yet for the Switch cartridges, but you know as soon as the thing releases there will be side by sides of loading times and consistency and such. Flash memory has come a long way and definitely has surpassed stock hard drives in many ways. Only time will tell though, so we will know in probably a couple of months when the Switch is in everybody's hands.

The cartridges that the Vita uses are also flash memory. Nevertheless some games take up to 2 minutes to load.

I'm not going to lie, this seems like more of a firmware issue than it does a cartridge issue. I bet if Sony cared enough to upgrade the Vita's load times they could have easily. The Nintendo 3DS does not have this problem, and it is running carts as well. I am betting that because of Nintendo's history with using carts and the fact that the current generation does not have a slow read issue, the Switch will not either.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

Luke888 on 18 January 2017

I totally agree, personally I only buy my games physically so I have no issue in the 32GB of memory but, even if I were to use all of them, I'd simply buy an extra micro SD just like most X1/PS4 owners did with the external hard drive. The online hasn't been outlined yet, we just learned that additionally to the online and the NES/SNES online games we will also have discounts for various titles so it's clear that there's more to this paid service than we actually know, plus we don't know how much it costs...

Conina said:
dongo8 said:

A couple of things, the read speed of the PS4 and Xbox One hard drives is max 6gb/s at stock levels. SSDs as well as SD cards are much faster than this. The cartridges that the Switch will be using are also flash memory and will most definitely outperform 5400 RPM or even 7200 RPM hard drives. It's not a question of if, to me. Of course we do not have official benchmarks yet for the Switch cartridges, but you know as soon as the thing releases there will be side by sides of loading times and consistency and such. Flash memory has come a long way and definitely has surpassed stock hard drives in many ways. Only time will tell though, so we will know in probably a couple of months when the Switch is in everybody's hands.

The cartridges that the Vita uses are also flash memory. Nevertheless some games take up to 2 minutes to load.

tbh it really depends on the game and I'm positive Nintendo has more experience with cartridges than Sony...