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Carl said:

If you want to compare Rol's moderation history with somebodies, you simply have to look at the reasons they're usually in trouble.

The vast majority of Rol's "trouble" comes from him attacking people who are usually, for the most part, being problematic themselves. He has the odd moderation for trolling, though those moderations usually don't come down to malicious intent and they're more jokes that can be misinterpreted. He's rarely if ever been disruptive to discussion or other communities.

The majority of trouble surrounding quickrick (and previously Kerotan) came from problems caused with other communities, and the fact that they're unwilling to admit when they were wrong. Pushing things to a point where they earn a bad name for themselves and any real negativity posted by them is seen as an attack.

Being that obtuse and dense, to the point where other people get into trouble for repeatedly responding and calling out bullshit, means that those posters are the cause of the problem. A backwards ruleset and backwards moderation has protected these kinds of users for years while punishing those who call out the trolls. This has been a problem through every mod team and every rule set.

The answer isn't to just swipe it under the carpet and hope the stink disappears with time. The answer is to cut out the problem at the source, just like I decided to do with Kerotan. Ethomaz can be another example. Lawlight another.

Stop hiding behind a broken, dated ruleset.

Give me the reign if you're too afraid to do what needs to be done.

calling something BS Because you don't agree or like the opinion is ridiculous, i was banned by you for a ridiculous reason because i said if the ps3 was priced right, it would have easily won the gen. we argued about it bit and got banned, rol last argument was nintendo PR numbers are not the real numbers, got upset and threw a temper tantrum. now it's also funny that only problems you, and rol dealt with are sony fans, never had a nintendo fan be a problem, obviously showing your bias  to popular opinion or a company because i would say the majority are nintendo fans here, and i have seen a few nintendo fans be dense, but nobody attacks them cause it's popular opinion, even when they are factually wrong. if they are gonna let you be a mod again might as well just let rol be a mod since you are gonna do the work him.

Last edited by quickrick - on 05 December 2018

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Carl said: 


1. Stop hiding behind a broken, dated ruleset.

2. Give me the reign if you're too afraid to do what needs to be done.

1. Which part of the rules, assuming you don't wish to toss them in their entirety, would you like re-worked? If you have some good ideas, the mod team is always genuinely interested in providing a better environment for the community.

2. Respectfully, you already proved that you lack the initiative to "take the reigns," so to speak, when you chose to step down from the mod team, instead of even discussing with us all these changes that you clearly feel need to happen. If that took place at some point before I joined the team, and I'm simply unaware of it, I'll happily withdraw that statement. From what I've gathered, however, speaking with other senior members of the mod team, that never actually happened. So, you know….it's all good and well to make statements like this, but there actually has to be something genuine behind the words.



Angelus said:

1. Which part of the rules, assuming you don't wish to toss them in their entirety, would you like re-worked? If you have some good ideas, the mod team is always genuinely interested in providing a better environment for the community.

2. Respectfully, you already proved that you lack the initiative to "take the reigns," so to speak, when you chose to step down from the mod team, instead of even discussing with us all these changes that you clearly feel need to happen. If that took place at some point before I joined the team, and I'm simply unaware of it, I'll happily withdraw that statement. From what I've gathered, however, speaking with other senior members of the mod team, that never actually happened. So, you know….it's all good and well to make statements like this, but there actually has to be something genuine behind the words.

I've discussed things thoroughly with both Miguel_Zorro and to a lesser extent Ryuu. Before and after I decided to step down. I'll not say which one out of respect for his privacy, but one of your seniors was considering asking me to help re-write said ruleset, which would indicate that the head mods also aren't too impressed with how things are. I'm not sure which senior members you must have been talking to.

I don't want to take control really, that was somewhat tongue in cheek. It is fairly clear though that the lack of real leadership in Miguel's absence is stalling any real progress the mod team can make both internally and on the forums.

If I must, I'll take control and guide you onto the right path.



                            

quickrick said:
Carl said:

If you want to compare Rol's moderation history with somebodies, you simply have to look at the reasons they're usually in trouble.

The vast majority of Rol's "trouble" comes from him attacking people who are usually, for the most part, being problematic themselves. He has the odd moderation for trolling, though those moderations usually don't come down to malicious intent and they're more jokes that can be misinterpreted. He's rarely if ever been disruptive to discussion or other communities.

The majority of trouble surrounding quickrick (and previously Kerotan) came from problems caused with other communities, and the fact that they're unwilling to admit when they were wrong. Pushing things to a point where they earn a bad name for themselves and any real negativity posted by them is seen as an attack.

Being that obtuse and dense, to the point where other people get into trouble for repeatedly responding and calling out bullshit, means that those posters are the cause of the problem. A backwards ruleset and backwards moderation has protected these kinds of users for years while punishing those who call out the trolls. This has been a problem through every mod team and every rule set.

The answer isn't to just swipe it under the carpet and hope the stink disappears with time. The answer is to cut out the problem at the source, just like I decided to do with Kerotan. Ethomaz can be another example. Lawlight another.

Stop hiding behind a broken, dated ruleset.

Give me the reign if you're too afraid to do what needs to be done.

calling something BS Because you don't agree or like the opinion is ridiculous, i was banned by you for a ridiculous reason because i said if the ps3 was priced right, it would have easily won the gen. we argued about it bit and got banned, rol last argument was nintendo PR numbers are not the real numbers, got upset and threw a temper tantrum. now it's also funny that only problems you, and rol dealt with are sony fans, never had a nintendo fan be a problem, obviously showing your bias  to popular opinion or a company because i would say the majority are nintendo fans here, and i have seen a few nintendo fans be dense, but nobody attacks them cause it's popular opinion, even when they are factually wrong. if they are gonna let you be a mod again might as well just let rol be a mod since you are gonna do the work him.

Sorry, off topic. That's not true, though. It doesn't matter where you come from, if someone says dumb things Rol will come by and point out the dumbness. I once said that I liked Devil's Third and he instantly came along and reminded me of what's wrong with that statement.



quickrick said:

calling something BS Because you don't agree or like the opinion is ridiculous, i was banned by you for a ridiculous reason because i said if the ps3 was priced right, it would have easily won the gen. we argued about it bit and got banned, rol last argument was nintendo PR numbers are not the real numbers, got upset and threw a temper tantrum. now it's also funny that only problems you, and rol dealt with are sony fans, never had a nintendo fan be a problem, obviously showing your bias  to popular opinion or a company because i would say the majority are nintendo fans here, and i have seen a few nintendo fans be dense, but nobody attacks them cause it's popular opinion, even when they are factually wrong. if they are gonna let you be a mod again might as well just let rol be a mod since you are gonna do the work him.

Bullshit is misleading information and refusing to admit you're wrong.

The first case in point that comes to mind, your actions in this thread - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=238119&page=1

TruckOSaurus put it best. "You say something outrageous which is demonstrably false, then you get called out on it, then you contextualize your statement afterwards. That leaves you with zero credibility."

In previous months? Let's take a look, in particular at this thread - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=234000&page=1 - And your "discussions" with CGI-Quality. CGI repeatedly called you out and asked you for evidence/ explanations, and you repeatedly offered him nothing. It ended up with this post, probably because CGI has a far cooler temper than most other people would - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8685065

Outside of that, if you don't want to count the time I banned you for being obtuse and annoying, let's take a little look at a bunch of your moderations over the last year.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8708226 - Trolling Nintendo with a strawman argument
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8787856 - Trolling Nintendo, constant negativity
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8823867 - Trolling Xbox and sexism, all in one
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8841405 - Trolling Nintendo throughout the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8851595 - Trolling Nintendo, derailing the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8910064 - Trolling Nintendo and baiting Nintendo fans

There is a major trend to what gets you into trouble and why people are so hostile towards you. In a Year on the site you've been consistently negative towards Nintendo and the Switch, you've been repeatedly called out by numerous members of site staff and you've been repeatedly banned for shit you do. There has been no significant change in your behaviour and you're still causing the very same problems 12 Months on from your famous "cliff" post.

It's clear to anyone with access to the forums what needs to be done.

As for my own bias, I'm not solely a Nintendo fan. I enjoy a select few Nintendo games and have owned numerous Nintendo platforms. The Switch is genuinely a brilliant console to compliment the PS4 and PC. I mainly played videogames on the Xbox 360 last generation despite being a toxic PS fan and the PS4 is currently my primary platform. I have more moderations on my account dating back over the last 10 years for trolling Nintendo and Xbox than you do. Trying to paint me, of all people, as some anti-Sony Nintendo fan shows just how ignorant you can be.



                            

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CGI-Quality said:

What is it exactly that you'd like to see changed? Let's start with feedback here and see if there are areas that can be agreed upon.

I need to head out for a short while but I'll get back to you on this.



                            

Carl said:
quickrick said:

calling something BS Because you don't agree or like the opinion is ridiculous, i was banned by you for a ridiculous reason because i said if the ps3 was priced right, it would have easily won the gen. we argued about it bit and got banned, rol last argument was nintendo PR numbers are not the real numbers, got upset and threw a temper tantrum. now it's also funny that only problems you, and rol dealt with are sony fans, never had a nintendo fan be a problem, obviously showing your bias  to popular opinion or a company because i would say the majority are nintendo fans here, and i have seen a few nintendo fans be dense, but nobody attacks them cause it's popular opinion, even when they are factually wrong. if they are gonna let you be a mod again might as well just let rol be a mod since you are gonna do the work him.

Bullshit is misleading information and refusing to admit you're wrong.

The first case in point that comes to mind, your actions in this thread - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=238119&page=1

TruckOSaurus put it best. "You say something outrageous which is demonstrably false, then you get called out on it, then you contextualize your statement afterwards. That leaves you with zero credibility."

In previous months? Let's take a look, in particular at this thread - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=234000&page=1 - And your "discussions" with CGI-Quality. CGI repeatedly called you out and asked you for evidence/ explanations, and you repeatedly offered him nothing. It ended up with this post, probably because CGI has a far cooler temper than most other people would - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8685065

Outside of that, if you don't want to count the time I banned you for being obtuse and annoying, let's take a little look at a bunch of your moderations over the last year.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8708226 - Trolling Nintendo with a strawman argument
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8787856 - Trolling Nintendo, constant negativity
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8823867 - Trolling Xbox and sexism, all in one
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8841405 - Trolling Nintendo throughout the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8851595 - Trolling Nintendo, derailing the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8910064 - Trolling Nintendo and baiting Nintendo fans

There is a major trend to what gets you into trouble and why people are so hostile towards you. In a Year on the site you've been consistently negative towards Nintendo and the Switch, you've been repeatedly called out by numerous members of site staff and you've been repeatedly banned for shit you do. There has been no significant change in your behaviour and you're still causing the very same problems 12 Months on from your famous "cliff" post.

It's clear to anyone with access to the forums what needs to be done.

As for my own bias, I'm not solely a Nintendo fan. I enjoy a select few Nintendo games and have owned numerous Nintendo platforms. The Switch is genuinely a brilliant console to compliment the PS4 and PC. I mainly played videogames on the Xbox 360 last generation despite being a toxic PS fan and the PS4 is currently my primary platform. I have more moderations on my account dating back over the last 10 years for trolling Nintendo and Xbox than you do. Trying to paint me, of all people, as some anti-Sony Nintendo fan shows just how ignorant you can be.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8708226 - Trolling Nintendo with a strawman argument
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8787856 - Trolling Nintendo, constant negativity
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8823867 - Trolling Xbox and sexism, all in one
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8841405 - Trolling Nintendo throughout the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8851595 - Trolling Nintendo, derailing the thread
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8910064 - Trolling Nintendo and baiting Nintendo fans

 

1 # ill just reply to these, since i don't have time to go through everything # 1 this guy constantly attacks sonys and it's fans, and doesn't get modded for it, any how no one can say for a fact zelda can't run on 360/ps3 several tech heads on beyond3d said it can, he's stating that zelda can't run as a fact.  now thats completes BS, but of course you call me out on it, how convenient when in reality the console are very close spec wise. thats strawman to you, then lol.

#2 last nintendo figures show this true, Americas is out selling  europe, and ROTW  which shows thats its not really strong in that market.

# 3  lol so i'm not a fan of playing as a girl in gears of war, i'm not allowed to have a opinion?

# 4 ok deserved it 

# 5 i gave my opinion on why i dislike some

# 6 i'm just trying to have fun with predictions its finally the holidays, maybe i will get owned, and eat crow whats the big deal? This Not Breaking The Forum Rules.

 

As for last part i don't think its only coincidence you target sony fans as trouble makers, its really hard to believe that only sony fans are the ones that were dense an obtuse and the trouble makers, while not even single nintendo fan made the list, it's more realistic that you have a bias and don't know it. 

 

Just checked the CGI argument it's a highly debatable opinion, many analysts still think the handheld market is dying the market has clearly shrunk. we still have 3 home consoles on the market, and only 1 handheld. honestly all your complaints are highly debatable  opinions that you think are dumb, not everyone has to agree with you, or think like you.   

Last edited by quickrick - on 05 December 2018

CGI-Quality said:

What is it exactly that you'd like to see changed? Let's start with feedback here and see if there are areas that can be agreed upon.

A few things from the top of my head.

I'll give a list of a few rule changes later, but as for right now the ruleset is too bloated and can be used against the mod team and the community with relative ease. The mod teams use of said ruleset is problematic, because a lot of things are taken too literal. I've argued for years that moderators should use them as basic guidelines rather than an exhaustive list of what should and shouldn't be moderated. Using the ruleset in this way leads to a lack of common sense ruling.

As an example, this can lead to members being moderated for calling out trolls and trouble causers, while trolls and trouble causers remain free because the ruleset lets them get away with it. This leads to extended discussion in this very thread where members of the community are having to repeatedly complain about said trouble causers.

This can be called a Conegamer situation.

-

I feel like the mod teams response to the rise in far right/ alt right rhetoric being spread over the forums has been lackluster at best. New moderators were brought onto the team to combat problems in political threads, while political threads have seen nothing but problems this year and have poisoned the well. One of your moderators sincerely believes that Adolf Hitler was a far left socialist.

This has been extremely problematic for the growth of the community in general.

-

The mod team is as big as it's ever been, while activity levels on the forum are as low as they've been in over 10 years. Despite this, your moderators have often refused to handle even the simplest of tasks. I've been over this problem with Ryuu and he's acknowledged that it is indeed a problem on the team, for whatever reason. I also echoed this problem to Miguel in October. Due to my old position on the team, I know that you personally took over the "coaching" of a bunch of the new recruits. If the new recruits aren't following basic moderator guidelines, that falls at your door.

This would lead anyone to the conclusion that a number of moderators are either incompetent or simply disinterested.

-

It's becoming more and more apparent that the current mod team is overly sensitive to criticism and has been quick to dismiss any real concerns. Certain moderator replies in this thread highlight that, as well as your team deciding to shut the thread down until Miguel returned and opened it back up. Certain discussions from Discord would further prove this point and we both know exactly what gets said in mod chat.

The community is key to any forum. When the mod team isn't really listening to concerns from the community, the community will not last. Toxicity drives people away.

-

In terms of a few rule changes...

Rule 3 doesn't need to be so bloated, it can include the entirety of Rule 4 and the mod team isn't quick to actually implement the rules. The search function on the site pretty much makes Rule 4 impossible without having to scroll through a few pages of threads.

Rule 5 and Rule 6 are both bloated with things that don't need to be there, specifically the NSFW stuff (Which would instead just come under the NSFW rule). These rules could also be mixed to a single rule

Rule 8 and Rule 9 could again be combined into a single forum etiquette rule. A guideline which encompasses things we like to see and things which should be avoided. Points 1, 2, 3 and 6 of Rule 8 could easily be put into Rule 9 as an example

Rule 10 is pointless and should never have been added. It can slip into both 11 and 13. More bloat

Rule 11 and 13 could both be condensed into a general forum etiquette rule with Rule 8 and 9.

Rule 14 doesn't need to be a thing, because nobody actually pays attention to it anyway and either repeatedly asks to be banned or nukes their account

Rule 16, much like Rule 4, simply isn't implemented. Can be put into another rule or mixed in with forum etiquette rule

 

Rule 17 is fine, however I've always felt more recently that moderators should start to reply to reports and let members know why certain situations haven't been dealt with. This is a bonus for the team, primarily because it removes any urge to complain about it in more public channels (In threads, in the mod thread)

-

This isn't everything.



                            

quickrick said:

 

1 # ill just reply to these, since i don't have time to go through everything # 1 this guy constantly attacks sonys and it's fans, and doesn't get modded for it, any how no one can say for a fact zelda can't run on 360/ps3 several tech heads on beyond3d said it can, he's stating that zelda can't run as a fact.  now thats completes BS, but of course you call me out on it, how convenient when in reality the console are very close spec wise. thats strawman to you, then lol.

I find it funny that, out of all the time we spent on this site and having many interactions, you still find the time to call for my moderation. At least this time you did't post on CGI's wall to ask for it.

On that one subject: Zelda BotW cannot run on Xbox 360/PS3. There is no proof for it that it can. It's time to let it go already. 
 
Lastly. I don't generally attack Sony, or its fans really. People choose to be offended by certain stuff I say, but I can assure you, I love Playstation games. I play them when I can between owning multiple modern systems and retro consoles ranging from Bandai Wonderswan to Neo Geo AES. I don't give two shits if people call me biased, cause I know what I am. Sure, I am a big Nintendo fan, but if that is all you want to see, it's not my problem. 



OTBWY said:
quickrick said:

 

1 # ill just reply to these, since i don't have time to go through everything # 1 this guy constantly attacks sonys and it's fans, and doesn't get modded for it, any how no one can say for a fact zelda can't run on 360/ps3 several tech heads on beyond3d said it can, he's stating that zelda can't run as a fact.  now thats completes BS, but of course you call me out on it, how convenient when in reality the console are very close spec wise. thats strawman to you, then lol.

I find it funny that, out of all the time we spent on this site and having many interactions, you still find the time to call for my moderation. At least this time you did't post on CGI's wall to ask for it.

On that one subject: Zelda BotW cannot run on Xbox 360/PS3. There is no proof for it that it can. It's time to let it go already. 
 
Lastly. I don't generally attack Sony, or its fans really. People choose to be offended by certain stuff I say, but I can assure you, I love Playstation games. I play them when I can between owning multiple modern systems and retro consoles ranging from Bandai Wonderswan to Neo Geo AES. I don't give two shits if people call me biased, cause I know what I am. Sure, I am a big Nintendo fan, but if that is all you want to see, it's not my problem. 

I know enough about to subject to know it can, in fact I would bet my life saving on it, but I have let it go, dont really care what you think about the subject, it's just Carl brought it up so I addressed him.

Last edited by quickrick - on 05 December 2018