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Forums - Sales Discussion - Prediction: PS4 up YOY big time in 2017

 

What you think

Agreed, big time year 211 81.47%
 
Nah PS4 sell bad 34 13.13%
 
Scorpio gonna kill PS4 14 5.41%
 
Total:259
Aura7541 said:

It's not advisable to predict GTS's performance off of GT6 considering the latter's circumstances. It was pretty damn obvious that GT6 would not sell as well as the previous entries when it was released right when the PS4 launched. Yet, in spite of that, it still managed to sell a respectable amount of units. To me, it is going to come down to multiple factors, namely the quality of GTS and Sony's marketing behind it. The initial trailer was terribad, though it was later revealed that it was utilizing an ancient build. That still does not excuse the trailer because it really gave a lot of people a negative impression. Since then, it has made gradual improvements.

Comparing GT to Uncharted is a flawed assessment unless Sony bundles the PS4 with GTS. Uncharted 4 as a standalone game did sell really well, but we need to acknowledge that the bundle also drove that number to 8.7 million sales. It's not really fair to compare GTS to UC4 if the former is never bundled. And as CGI pointed out, GT3 was bundled with the PS2.

Also, you need to look past just the amount of units sold in a year. While the PS4 sold slightly more in 2016 than in 2015, there's a catch. The PS4 was down YOY in the US as of November 2016 by a significant margin and yet, it managed to outperform its 2015 WW performance. In addition, you need to consider how SIEA pushed the PS4 during the 2015 and 2016 holiday seasons. In 2015, there were the Uncharted Collection 500GB bundle, Black Ops 3 1TB LE bundle, Black Ops 3 500GB standard bundle, and 3 different Star Wars Battlefront bundles. In 2016, there were just the UC4 500GB bundle, the FFXV 1TB LE bundle, the PS4 Pro, and the Infinite Warfare 500GB bundle.

Holiday sales in the US are dependent on three factors: price, AAA 3rd party software, and bundle variety. The PS4 did amazing during the 2015 holiday season because it checked off all three of the aspects I mentioned. In 2016, the PS4 only checked off one which was price. AAA 3rd party software took a major hit. COD IW sold substantially worse than Black Ops 3. Watch Dogs 2 didn't move the needle at all. There weren't Fallout 4 and Star Wars Battlefront last year. Other than the UC4 bundle, all the other SKUs were costly. The Pro's price stayed at $399. The FFXV LE bundle cost a whopping $449. The Infinite Warfare bundle came out after Christmas whereas Sony released the Black Ops 3 bundle in December 14, 2015 when consumers are still in a buying mood. Barring any delays, the AAA 3rd party offerings for the holiday season are shaping up to be better. This will also affect the attractiveness and variety of the bundles.

It was perhaps a pretty fair assumption to not expect GT6 to sell as much as GT5, but I don't think anyone expected it to sell about 1/3 of GT6's number and closer to those of GT PSP, that's a rather spectular drop, regardless of circumstances, and it tells us something about where the franchise currently stands. The part about it launching right around when the PS4 came around shouldn't have had a big impact at all, Final Fantasy XII released just around the time the PS3 came and it was without a doubt the most divisive mainline game to date, it still managed to sell around 3/4 of FFX and became the 4th highest selling FF game so far.
As far as using a poor build with aging assets and other technical factors; this is exactly what my first post pointed out as being among the main reasons why the series has plummeted in popularity, both critics and fans have continued to rate each installment lower than the last.

The best and simplest explanation for the PS4's rather underwhelming performance in 2016 goes beyond big bundles for the holiday 2015 though; it's seems very likely that the demand simply isn't anywhere near as high as some would claim. With a Wii U that's barely moving and an Xbox selling about half throughout the year (at best), conditions should be perfect, especially factoring in price cut, big releases, PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro and a fairly heavy marketing push (I've yet to see a single movie this year without at least one PS4 commercial before the trailers and stores are going nuts with posters and campaigns), it should be moving more units all in all, but it's not. The elusive 20 million selling year still seems like a distant dream, besides having been "assured" two years in a row now by quite a few members on vgchartz.

As for holiday sales in the US; what's going to make 2017 better in this regard? The same annual franchises are releasing, what we're seeing is certain franchises showing consumer fatigue, that's hardly something that will be reversed this year and third parties will rely on pretty much the same cash cows as last year and the year before. There are some exciting new IP's, like Horizon, but one can't bank any significant increase yoy on new IP's either, not even combined with old ones. Pricing might help, but this myth about "199$ is the sweet spot for mass market consumers" needs to die already. As I've mentioned; if the PS4 hasn't shown signs of vastly improved sales at this point, it likely never will, regardless of software and pricing, we're more than likely past the halfway point in this generation already. Perceived value is king, this is what has caused the smartphone to usurp the entertainment throne; it has unbeatable perceived value, pure and simple, paired with immense convenience.



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bluedawgs said:
Mummelmann said:

Last part is really interesting, I don't know how many times I've gotten into arguments with folks dubbing the PS4 "the next PS2". The PS2 was the culmination of perfect conditions for home consoles in almost every possible way and it was obvious that its success wouldn't be replicated any time soon.

I wrote about hardware revisions in the UNITY thread, there's no doubt the market has changed, it's more fast-paced and consumption driven, and with more and more non-gaming functionality on static devices like consoles, they're forced to follow more dynamic devices in their approach to updates on both hardrware and software. Even the business models for software sales and partitioned games are taking cues from the smartphone segment, with micotransactions and purchase of in-game content having grown huge since 2009-2010. Gone are the days where a game is developer for a couple of years, released and then patched a couple of times to remove kinks, now you buy in bits as you go, DLC and add-on's are absolutely everywhere.

I think the PS4 will be slightly down yoy in 2017, I can't really see much else happening at this point. Price cuts help short term (even the Wii U got a quick burst from a price cut), but if the pent up demand isn't there, consoles won't fly off the shelves even with a sizable price cut. All in all, consoles simply don't have anywhere near the same perceived value in the 8th gen as they did in the two previous generations and the audience is scattered across several segments and niches now.

PS: Do you think the PS4 can beat the PS1 in lifetime sales at this rate?

you're just expecting ps4 to drop like a rock arent you

Hmm, "a good start with a slow decline", "not the next PS2", "probably won't beat the PS1", "many have overstimated it", "won't have a 20 million selling calendar year".

Yes, clearly, that's what I'm saying in here. Drop. Like. A. Rock.



Mummelmann said:
bluedawgs said:

you're just expecting ps4 to drop like a rock arent you

Hmm, "a good start with a slow decline", "not the next PS2", "probably won't beat the PS1", "many have overstimated it", "won't have a 20 million selling calendar year".

Yes, clearly, that's what I'm saying in here. Drop. Like. A. Rock.

Well... its 4th year looks to be stronger than its 3rd.

It sold 53,4m in 3years.

Pretty sure next year it ll do 18-18.5m.  (end of next year it will be around 72m sold)

Its hard to say what happends in 2018,2019,2020, before the Playstation 5 launches, however ".Drop. Like. A. Rock." isnt what I expect.

It depends on what sales look like if Sony can sell it at 149$, I guess? still I can see it doing 110m+ lifetime, unless something goes wrong.



JRPGfan said:
Mummelmann said:

Hmm, "a good start with a slow decline", "not the next PS2", "probably won't beat the PS1", "many have overstimated it", "won't have a 20 million selling calendar year".

Yes, clearly, that's what I'm saying in here. Drop. Like. A. Rock.

Well... its 4th year looks to be stronger than its 3rd.

It sold 53,4m in 3years.

Pretty sure next year it ll do 18-18.5m.  (end of next year it will be around 72m sold)

Its hard to say what happends in 2018,2019,2020, before the Playstation 5 launches, however ".Drop. Like. A. Rock." isnt what I expect.

It depends on what sales look like if Sony can sell it at 149$, I guess? stilll I can see it doing 110m+ lifetime, unless something goes wrong.

Sarcasm is hard on the internet...

I don't expect it to drop like a rock and I never suggested as much, but this user seems to have somehow conjured up that opinion on my behalf.

That said; when the next generation starts, I expect a really sharp decline in hardware sales, certainly a lot more abrubt that the PS3 and Xbox 360.



One thing people aren't taking into account when talking about Gran Turismo performance is that the entire racing genre has been declined since last generation.

Big franchises like Forza and Need for Speed are down, smaller franchises like Dirt, MotoGP, Nascar & F1 are down, while new franchises like DriveClub, The Crew & Project Cars have not been able to offset the decline.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gran Turismo Sport will sell very well and will move hardware, I just think the series won't be as big as it once was. It will most likely surpass GT6 but I think it will fall short of other entries.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
One thing people aren't taking into account when talking about Gran Turismo performance is that the entire racing genre has been declined since last generation.

Big franchises like Forza and Need for Speed are down, smaller franchises like Dirt, MotoGP, Nascar & F1 are down, while new franchises like DriveClub, The Crew & Project Cars have not been able to offset the decline.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gran Turismo Sport will sell very well and will move hardware, I just think the series won't be as big as it once was. It will most likely surpass GT6 but I think it will fall short of other entries.

Mario Kart 8 did well enough.

I think they just have to make them less sim like.



Mummelmann said:
JRPGfan said:

Well... its 4th year looks to be stronger than its 3rd.

It sold 53,4m in 3years.

Pretty sure next year it ll do 18-18.5m.  (end of next year it will be around 72m sold)

Its hard to say what happends in 2018,2019,2020, before the Playstation 5 launches, however ".Drop. Like. A. Rock." isnt what I expect.

It depends on what sales look like if Sony can sell it at 149$, I guess? stilll I can see it doing 110m+ lifetime, unless something goes wrong.

Sarcasm is hard on the internet...

I don't expect it to drop like a rock and I never suggested as much, but this user seems to have somehow conjured up that opinion on my behalf.

That said; when the next generation starts, I expect a really sharp decline in hardware sales, certainly a lot more abrubt that the PS3 and Xbox 360.

lol after this year it will only need to sell around 30 million units to pass ps1 and you're expecting it to not do that, so i don't know what you think dropping like a rock looks like, but not being able to sell 30 million more units, ever, after this year is what dropping like a rock looks like to me



JRPGfan said:
zorg1000 said:
One thing people aren't taking into account when talking about Gran Turismo performance is that the entire racing genre has been declined since last generation.

Big franchises like Forza and Need for Speed are down, smaller franchises like Dirt, MotoGP, Nascar & F1 are down, while new franchises like DriveClub, The Crew & Project Cars have not been able to offset the decline.

Don't get me wrong, I think Gran Turismo Sport will sell very well and will move hardware, I just think the series won't be as big as it once was. It will most likely surpass GT6 but I think it will fall short of other entries.

Mario Kart 8 did well enough.

I think they just have to make them less sim like.

How do you make a sim, less sim like?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

bluedawgs said:
Mummelmann said:

Sarcasm is hard on the internet...

I don't expect it to drop like a rock and I never suggested as much, but this user seems to have somehow conjured up that opinion on my behalf.

That said; when the next generation starts, I expect a really sharp decline in hardware sales, certainly a lot more abrubt that the PS3 and Xbox 360.

lol after this year it will only need to sell around 30 million units to pass ps1 and you're expecting it to not do that, so i don't know what you think dropping like a rock looks like, but not being able to sell 30 million more units, ever, after this year is what dropping like a rock looks like to me

53.4 million as of the start of 2017, I believe it will be at around 70 million lifetime by the end of 2017, that means it needs another 40 million to beat the PS1. And, no, I don't think it will, the decline after new hardware releases will likely be savage and quick.

Roughly 16.6-17 million sales in 2017 equals ~~70 million lifetime. Another 14-15 million in 2018, followed by 11-12 million in 2019 and 6-7 million in 2020 (figuring that the PS5 launches in late 2019).

That's below the 110 million or so of the PS1, by some margin. 100 million is quite realistic, 110 million not quite so much, from where I'm sitting at least. But, what do I know, maybe my chair is broken.

I will also add that I've predicted the PS4 year end lifetime sales within a margin of about 500k these past two years (400k off in 2015, overshot, and 600 over in 2016, overshot), so my guesses are seemingly better than average at least.

Care to tell me how the PS4 will reach 110 million sales lifetime then? Also; thread title clearly states "up yoy big time", which means a large increase, something has to drive this and there's really nothing I can see on the horizon to produce this growth. The best they can hope for is to remain more less flat, in my opinion. Time will tell who has it right, but my stance at least has some pretty decent trends and data to go by.



Mummelmann said:
bluedawgs said:

lol after this year it will only need to sell around 30 million units to pass ps1 and you're expecting it to not do that, so i don't know what you think dropping like a rock looks like, but not being able to sell 30 million more units, ever, after this year is what dropping like a rock looks like to me

53.4 million as of the start of 2017, I believe it will be at around 70 million lifetime by the end of 2017, that means it needs another 40 million to beat the PS1. And, no, I don't think it will, the decline after new hardware releases will likely be savage and quick.

Roughly 16.6-17 million sales in 2017 equals ~~70 million lifetime. Another 14-15 million in 2018, followed by 11-12 million in 2019 and 6-7 million in 2020 (figuring that the PS5 launches in late 2019).

That's below the 110 million or so of the PS1, by some margin. 100 million is quite realistic, 110 million not quite so much, from where I'm sitting at least. But, what do I know, maybe my chair is broken.

I will also add that I've predicted the PS4 year end lifetime sales within a margin of about 500k these past two years (400k off in 2015, overshot, and 600 over in 2016, overshot), so my guesses are seemingly better than average at least.

Care to tell me how the PS4 will reach 110 million sales lifetime then? Also; thread title clearly states "up yoy big time", which means a large increase, something has to drive this and there's really nothing I can see on the horizon to produce this growth. The best they can hope for is to remain more less flat, in my opinion. Time will tell who has it right, but my stance at least has some pretty decent trends and data to go by.

I made this thread, i stated why i think it will be up a lot year on year in the first post of this thread but i guess i can throw some reasons out there again. Big software, much bigger than 2016 (if you want to argue against that, fine, but most people will disagree) and a price cut for both the slim and the pro. Also the Playstation sold 102.5 million units, not 110 million, and since i predicted 20 million for PS4 this year, which means it will be at 73.4 million at least by the end of 2017, it will have to sell less than 29 million for the rest of its life to not outsell the PS1, if we go by your 16.5 million prediction and PS4 being at 70 million by the end of 2017 then it needs to sell 32.5 million or more to outsell PS1 

also i don't know what trends you're talking about either, it went up year on year for the third consecutive year, and the software being much more attractive and plentiful this year compared to last year is so obvious that it actually stings when you and other people don't acknowledge it, also i'm under the impression that ps4 will sell for $199 at some point this year which is an extremely attractive price point