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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Self destructive graphics arms race is wiping out game devs.

 

Have games become to demanding, too expensive to make?

Yes, and it is a self-des... 182 69.73%
 
No, give me 4K even if it bankrupts them. 79 30.27%
 
Total:261

i think it is ending.
In few years no one will notice diference between graphics.
Or even, the new engines will make it very easy to show realistic graphics in any plataform. including mobile.



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Lawlight said:
Does anyone have a list of the devs going under? Because I don't the claim that 80% claim.

 

The links are in the OP.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

aLkaLiNE said:
It may be true that there's less AAA studios around, but as each one crashes and burns, the employees from these studios often reform into new smaller studios that often times create the innovation that pushes this industry forward. Kind of like a rising Phoenix. Also I bet there are overall more studios when you count the smaller guys on digital networks, just less AAA studios... Is that really a bad thing though? It's easier than ever before to create and develop your own game and now it's even possible to acquire funding through the public via Kickstarter. What have we really lost from AAA studios that we haven't gotten back from the A or AA studios?

 

This is a very good point. The industry is getting more streamlined. Less AAA devs and more independent ones. Games are going to get smaller and cheaper in the future. Thats not a bad thing, just different from how it is now.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

SonytendoAmiibo said:
Lawlight said:
Does anyone have a list of the devs going under? Because I don't the claim that 80% claim.

 

The links are in the OP.

No, all I'm seeing is the Chief Creative Officer of EA saying that based on what he thought he heard - that there was 125 game developers before and now there's 25 of them.

That's makes no sense because we know 100 studios didn't get closed down during the PS3/360 era.



Soundwave said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:
The thing that blows my mind is that 91 billion dollars was made in 2016, yet all these devs are going under. Where is all that money going?

It's $91 billion, but $60 billion of that is either mobile apps or free-to-play online games. And those numbers are revenue only, they obviously don't account for profit. 

 

Yes. The money made is revenue, not profit. I should have been more specific. Still, thats more than some countries are worth.

   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

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Lawlight said:
SonytendoAmiibo said:

 

The links are in the OP.

No, all I'm seeing is the Chief Creative Officer of EA saying that based on what he thought he heard - that there was 125 game developers before and now there's 25 of them.

That's makes no sense because we know 100 studios didn't get closed down during the PS3/360 era.

Here is a very comprehensive list of bankrupt developers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_video_game_companies

I will add this to the OP.



   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

Pemalite said:
Ljink96 said:
This is why I'm re-evaluating what kind of game market I want to eventually enter. I'm going to university learning all these high end 3d techniques but I don't think it's necessary and it's too costly to implement these aspects into gaming. No to mention, photogrammetry is going to put a lot of 3D realist jobs out of the window. Mobile is looking to be really great choices to eventually start developing games on for me. There's lots of money to be made, graphics aren't in high regard, and it's easy to program games for.

Development will become cheaper the future as computers and cameras begin taking place of human jobs but I don't think that'll happen even within the next 10 or 20 years.

Allot of 3D techniques actually reduce development time, for many of them, that is the entire point of it existing in the first place.

Photogrammetry still requires artists to clean up textures, modellers to optimize and improve models, programmers to write shader code to simulate effects like wet cloth and lighting.
Photogrammetry is just another tool that developers can use to build their games.
Will it take away jobs? Perhaps. But it might not either.

Mobile is a good place to start though, but don't ignore the PC by jumping into mobile, sometimes it is the PC that makes the mobile game successfull.

Agreed. I guess 3D 'techniques' wasn't the best way to word it. They do improve speed but HD development in general is still rather costly, if you're going for a realistic look. I guess realism was the concept that I am wanting to avoid in game development. 

I actually wasn't expecting people to catch on to photogrammetry here but I'm glad you know your stuff. I am aware that it isn't the be all end all for 3D realists but it is doing a lot of work that would take a single guy a week to do, withing a couple of days from start to finish. Cleanup, etc needs to be done of course but it's still some damn good tech. FFXV Kingsglaive used it a lot and though cleanup is extensive, it's amazing what it can do at such an early stage.

Programmers, like you said also need to be able to code for animation techniques, etc, which is also starting to look appealing as 3D modelers lose their worth. Unless you focus on toon graphics or highly stylized graphics. But I digress.

PC is of course something I will also focus on as Steam is pretty huge. Making games with minimum input, with great quality, and getting a return of some sort is the plan for me. 



SonytendoAmiibo said:
Lawlight said:

No, all I'm seeing is the Chief Creative Officer of EA saying that based on what he thought he heard - that there was 125 game developers before and now there's 25 of them.

That's makes no sense because we know 100 studios didn't get closed down during the PS3/360 era.

Here is a very comprehensive list of bankrupt developers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_video_game_companies

I will add this to the OP.

Which still doesn't mean 80% of developers are gone...where did you get that statistic?



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

It's a free market and only companies that can attend to customer needs shall survive. And if the market wants that so be it, don't be a spoiled brat that demands that things are made to attend your wishes and not what the general market wants.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Ljink96 said:
Pemalite said:

Allot of 3D techniques actually reduce development time, for many of them, that is the entire point of it existing in the first place.

Photogrammetry still requires artists to clean up textures, modellers to optimize and improve models, programmers to write shader code to simulate effects like wet cloth and lighting.
Photogrammetry is just another tool that developers can use to build their games.
Will it take away jobs? Perhaps. But it might not either.

Mobile is a good place to start though, but don't ignore the PC by jumping into mobile, sometimes it is the PC that makes the mobile game successfull.

Agreed. I guess 3D 'techniques' wasn't the best way to word it. They do improve speed but HD development in general is still rather costly, if you're going for a realistic look. I guess realism was the concept that I am wanting to avoid in game development. 

I actually wasn't expecting people to catch on to photogrammetry here but I'm glad you know your stuff. I am aware that it isn't the be all end all for 3D realists but it is doing a lot of work that would take a single guy a week to do, withing a couple of days from start to finish. Cleanup, etc needs to be done of course but it's still some damn good tech. FFXV Kingsglaive used it a lot and though cleanup is extensive, it's amazing what it can do at such an early stage.

Programmers, like you said also need to be able to code for animation techniques, etc, which is also starting to look appealing as 3D modelers lose their worth. Unless you focus on toon graphics or highly stylized graphics. But I digress.

PC is of course something I will also focus on as Steam is pretty huge. Making games with minimum input, with great quality, and getting a return of some sort is the plan for me. 

Man, avoid to be "ludist" with the fear of machines and automation taking out human jobs... that only means jobs will evolve. Most of the jobs you have today weren't possible at the start of industrial revolution (when the ludist born when the machines came), actually several of them didn't exist a decade ago. There will always be a place for good professionals, and if everything becames very easy the most that can happen is that any dev can be a one man dev company and do his game solo and sell.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."