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Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump: 'Nobody Really Knows' If Climate Change Is Real

fatslob-:O said:
Ljink96 said:

But I never said Trump was racist...Never... nor did I say every trump supporter was racist...never... Like I said, it doesn't work in my scenario.  What I'm getting at is the stuff Trump said during the campaign hadn't been heard of for years in any candidate. When supporters who thought like Trump was speaking heard about him, they came out of the woodwork because of the way he spoke, the way he carried himself.  It reminded them of themselves. I'm obviously referring to the KKK and other WS groups. Bush wasn't supported by the KKK, Clinton wasn't, Bush Sr. wasn't, Regan wasn't, Carter wasn't...need I go on. Why Trump? You know?

FYI, Trump disavows seeking endorsement from David Duke and white supremacist groups like the KKK so Trump isn't the one supporting them either ... 

Trump also does not promote hate crimes against minorities either, in fact he addressed it! 

He has a human side, believe it or not but you refuse to see it at every turn ... 

OMFG, I'm not that dense to understand that all Trump supporters aren't deplorable. I'm just stating the facts. I saw that Trump told people not to do "it" but that doesn't excuse the matter. Trump is not a god figure that dispels all evil withing his supporters. I've been quoted numerous times on this site that I agree with a few things Trump stands for, so before you try to read someone, at least have all your evidence. 



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Ljink96 said:

OMFG, I'm not that dense to understand that all Trump supporters aren't deplorable. I'm just stating the facts. I saw that Trump told people not to do "it" but that doesn't excuse the matter. Trump is not a god figure that dispels all evil withing his supporters. I've been quoted numerous times on this site that I agree with a few things Trump stands for, so before you try to read someone, at least have all your evidence. 

I didn't say you were ... 

Tell us how it doesn't excuse the matter when Trump makes his intentions clear that he tries to make some of his supporters look past bigotry ? (that he does not want to be supporters of bigotry)



thranx said:
Pemalite said:

To assume that a particular God is going to interfere with "Earth" is a baseless assumption, ignoring the fact there is no evidence to support the existence of a deity anyway. - Regardless of which of the several thousand Gods you believe in.

This Earth will eventually be destroyed when Sol (Our Sun) becomes a Red Giant. Our Atmosphere, oceans, everything, will be evaporated. - It is just a matter of time, not if. - And there is nothing any of the thousands of Gods that various people believe in, will do to stop it.
The Suns fuel is finite.

***********

As for Climate Change. It is real. Majority of scientists, weather researches, institutions/organizations/governments support it's happening.

There is undeniable proof.

We have records from Tree rings that points to increases in carbon.
We have records in our Arctic regions via Ice-pole gathering that points to increases of Carbon and other gases.
We have recorded what gases take up what amount in our atmosphere for decades, which has seen constitent increases in Carbon.
We have recorded increases in sea levels.
We have recorded increases in carbonic acid in our oceans.
We have recoded increases in desertification.
We have recorded average increases in temperature.
We have recorded increases in catastrophic weather events.

We can observe the effect that Carbon has in trapping thermal radiation in a scientific laboratory. Ergo. Carbon would have the *exact* same effect in our atmosphere trapping thermal radiation from our Sun.

The only people who can deny Climate Change are idiots or who have an ulterior motive. (Aka. Money.)
Trump is clearly both, an idiot and has an ulterior motive. (Business.)

And why dont they include sun activity, and the role the sun plays? I mean it is the source of our heat right? But lets forget about that and focus on a non harmful gas that feeds plants. If i'm not mistaken at one point the sarah desert was at one point not a desert, but it is now and that happened before the industrial revolution. who is to blame for that one?

NASA has recorded solar events for decades. The Sun typically has a 11 year cycle, which can be shorter or longer, but not outside of an observable window.

And you are correct. There are some natural processes, such as deserts forming... But that was done over a stupidly long period of time, today it is occuring on a much faster scale.
I went to the Australian Great Barrier Reef back in the 90's... Then again just a couple of years ago and went to the same place. Everything was dead due to the coral being bleached far to many times and struggling to recover.

You cannot deny the empirical evidence.

thranx said:

Ha ha ha. Never heard of it. You must really research the science than.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

And yes of course they downplay it. In hindsight everything is clear, just like gobal cooling, global warming will be looked at as a joke. Especially since the evidence just inst there. But hey lets kill our economies over it and let worse polluters take charge will we hurt ourselves

Edit: sorry didn't read your whole post. It went from global warming to climate change because the eveidence isn't there. there is a reason the public doesn't care, its not affecting them. All thats been happening is wordplay

How can you ignore the evidence? The entire planets scientific community is by the majority, behind Global Warming and thus Climate Change.
You know... The people responsible for our current technological level and standard of living? Who have spent billions of dollars and decades upon decades studying this issue?
Are you smarter than the majority of the worlds scientists? Why can't the majority of the entire planets scientific community not be trusted?

Global cooling was never backed by the majority of the worlds scientific community, so it's just grasping at straws.

mrstickball said:

You need fracking even for renewables. When wind/solar don't run, you need backups, and combined cycle gas plants are the most favored for that. Additionally, the lower gas prices go, the quicker coal gets phased out. Gas is at least 50% cleaner than coal, so it'd help quite a bit, among other things.

Well. You can start by capturing that carbon and storing/using it.

However... Wind and Solar is not the only form of renewable and clean energy production.
Geothermal, Nuclear, Hydro are all great base-load power generators.
Solar Thermal can store the thermal energy from the sun and store that thermal energy in large salt tanks so that it can produce energy 24/7.

Renewable Energy is a massive world-wide market, it is best to take part of that, invent and improve technology's and make some jobs for yourselves.

I am a firm believer though of using the best form of power generation for the given geographical area. - It would be blatantly stupid to build a coal plant when you have an abundance of geothermal capacity.
And it would be stupid to build a water-intensive Nuclear plant in the middle of a desert with an abundance of Solar and Thermal radiation to take advantage of.

bdbdbd said:

Trump's neutrality towards pretty much everything can be good or a bad thing. Which will it be, we'll see in the future. I have my hopes high that this will return the talk back to science and facts.

Trump is not Neutral. He is a conservative, which means he is against "change" or anything that distrupts the status quo.
He is also a protectionist.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

fatslob-:O said:
Chris Hu said:

Having health issues and dying are two completely things again its much easier to die from extreme heat then extreme cold. 

Gotta love not reading the article ... 

the-pi-guy said:

No, it doesn't mean the model doesn't work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

 

Weather is a very complicated thing.  Kinda hard to test if climate change causes hurricanes....  

Doesn't mean the model is wrong, could just mean that we need to include more data in our model.  

There's really no other conclusion ... 

If data doesn't support the assertion then the model is wrong ... 

It's hard to prove if a theory is correct but it's easy to see it's wrong when the teensy tiniest of a disagreement will destroy it ... 

Event though USA Today is main stream its still only slightly more creditable then the National Enquirer so you gotta give me a much more reliable source then that again its a lot easier to survive a extreme cold weather then extreme hot weather if you don't believe me watch the movie Alive (1993) which is based on a true story.



Chris Hu said:

Event though USA Today is main stream its still only slightly more creditable then the National Enquirer so you gotta give me a much more reliable source then that again its a lot easier to survive a extreme cold weather then extreme hot weather if you don't believe me watch the movie Alive (1993) which is based on a true story.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cold-deemed-deadlier-than-heat-when-it-comes-to-weather-deaths-1.3081053

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cold-hot-weather-deaths-20150520-story.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150520193831.htm

I rest my case ... (Far more easier to live in 40*C than -40*C when your normal body temperatures (37*C) are closer to the former than the latter.)



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Soundwave said:
Who knows. A 400 pound man on his bed in New Jersey could be causing global warming. We don't know.

Nice.

 

 

Let me go cry in despair now...



fatslob-:O said:
Chris Hu said:

Event though USA Today is main stream its still only slightly more creditable then the National Enquirer so you gotta give me a much more reliable source then that again its a lot easier to survive a extreme cold weather then extreme hot weather if you don't believe me watch the movie Alive (1993) which is based on a true story.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cold-deemed-deadlier-than-heat-when-it-comes-to-weather-deaths-1.3081053

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cold-hot-weather-deaths-20150520-story.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150520193831.htm

I rest my case ... (Far more easier to live in 40*C than -40*C when your normal body temperatures (37*C) are closer to the former than the latter.)

But its a lot easier to be stuck in 40C (110+F) temperaturure then in then in -40 C especially with global warming so my point still stands.  Its pretty easy to build a shelter to avoid exteme cold again watch the movie Alive (1993) if you don't want to belive me, but its pretty much impossible to build a shelter to protect you from extreme heat 40C (110+F).   The only reason people can survive today in 40C (110+ F) heat is because of air conditioning people survived in extreme cold a long time before the invention of air contiontioning (eskimos, neanderthal man).



Chris Hu said:

But its a lot easier to be stuck in 40C (110+F) temperaturure then in then in -40 C especially with global warming so my point still stands.  Its pretty easy to build a shelter to avoid exteme cold again watch the movie Alive (1993) if you don't want to belive me, but its pretty much impossible to build a shelter to protect you from extreme heat 40C (110+F).   The only reason people can survive today in 40C (110+ F) heat is because of air conditioning people survived in extreme cold a long time before the invention of air contiontioning (eskimos, neanderthal man).

That doesn't change the fact that colder temperatures are relatively more lethal than warmer temperatures ... 

Your assertion also has limits too. Even if we burned all sources of fossil fuels including currently unrecoverable sources too the average temperature rise would only amount to 10*C where our current average is still less than 1*C ... (There's only so many sources we can find and burn but the best part is we'd still be in the habitable zone!) 

The fearmongering of a doomsday scenario where we will see boiling oceans if we use more fuel is just unfettered ignorance ... 



Chris Hu said:
fatslob-:O said:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cold-deemed-deadlier-than-heat-when-it-comes-to-weather-deaths-1.3081053

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-cold-hot-weather-deaths-20150520-story.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150520193831.htm

I rest my case ... (Far more easier to live in 40*C than -40*C when your normal body temperatures (37*C) are closer to the former than the latter.)

But its a lot easier to be stuck in 40C (110+F) temperaturure then in then in -40 C especially with global warming so my point still stands.  Its pretty easy to build a shelter to avoid exteme cold again watch the movie Alive (1993) if you don't want to belive me, but its pretty much impossible to build a shelter to protect you from extreme heat 40C (110+F).   The only reason people can survive today in 40C (110+ F) heat is because of air conditioning people survived in extreme cold a long time before the invention of air contiontioning (eskimos, neanderthal man).

You should come to Australia and try to endure almost 50'C/122'F during a typical summer.
You literally cannot survive that during the day over long periods... So what they did was build houses underground. (Because Air-conditioning wasn't a thing a hundred years ago.)
45'C is a pretty typical temperature just North of me.

Aboriginals managed to endure it by staying in caves and stone structures and being near water, plus their body's seem to handle the extremes better due to minor physiological evolutionary changes like increased production of Thyroxine.

Growing up, I didn't have an air conditioner, they weren't common back then, 40'C and higher days were fine, we lived under the sprinkler and ate ice blocks.
The worst kinds of heat wasn't the direct heat from the sun, it was the air being heated up in Australia's "Heat Engine" turning the air dry, hot and sticky... But that wasn't even the worst part.
The worst part was when it stuck around for over a week with zero relief.

Schools and such would also be closed down due to the heat. - That doesn't seem to happen as much anymore, with the exception of excessively hot days, thanks to Air conditioners...

Even things like roads would have the tar melt, turning the roads almost shiny and smooth.

****

The point is, regardless of temperature extremes, human beings adapt and survive just fine, even without technology.
You aren't wrong though, it is easier to warm up when it's cold than it is to cool down when it's hot. I've experience it first hand! haha



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

fatslob-:O said:
Chris Hu said:

But its a lot easier to be stuck in 40C (110+F) temperaturure then in then in -40 C especially with global warming so my point still stands.  Its pretty easy to build a shelter to avoid exteme cold again watch the movie Alive (1993) if you don't want to belive me, but its pretty much impossible to build a shelter to protect you from extreme heat 40C (110+F).   The only reason people can survive today in 40C (110+ F) heat is because of air conditioning people survived in extreme cold a long time before the invention of air contiontioning (eskimos, neanderthal man).

That doesn't change the fact that colder temperatures are relatively more lethal than warmer temperatures ... 

Your assertion also has limits too. Even if we burned all sources of fossil fuels including currently unrecoverable sources too the average temperature rise would only amount to 10*C where our current average is still less than 1*C ... (There's only so many sources we can find and burn but the best part is we'd still be in the habitable zone!) 

The fearmongering of a doomsday scenario where we will see boiling oceans if we use more fuel is just unfettered ignorance ... 

No they are not you can survive extreme cold relvatively easily and its not that difficult to build a shelter to guard against extreme cold humans have been doing it for thousands of years.  The only problem with exteme cold is if you are stuck in it too long there is good chance you might loose some toes, fingers  or other body parts  due to frost bite.  But with extreme heat once you go into heat stroke or are dehydrated you will die pretty quickly without imeditate medical attention.  Most places that have numerous days above 40C would have less then 1/10 the population they have today without air conditioning since humans adapt a lot less to extreme heat then extreme cold.