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Forums - Politics Discussion - [Update] CIA & FBI Report: Russia did things to help get Trump elected

Hillary was the reason Trump won. She sucks hard, Trump also sucks but she sucks even more.



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Normchacho said:
Yup. Not surprised at all. Nearly half of Americans were totally fine voting for someone that the Russians actively tried to get elected.

Yea while terroist countries were donating to the other candidate. Could you imagine voting in someone who accepts money from the same people who funded 911. 



 

Putin Lashes out at Obama: 'Show Proof or Shut Up'

Friday, 16 December 2016

Putin has had enough of the relentless barrage of US accusations that he, personally, "hacked the US presidential election."

The Russian president's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said on Friday that the US must either stop accusing Russia of meddling in its elections or prove it. Peskov said it was "indecent" of the United States to "groundlessly" accuse Russia of intervention in its elections.

“You need to either stop talking about it, or finally show some kind of proof. Otherwise it just looks very indecent”, Peskov told Reporters in Tokyo where Putin is meeting with Japan PM Abe, responding to the latest accusations that Russia was responsible for hacker attacks.

 

Peskov also warned that Obama's threat to "retaliate" to the alleged Russian hack is "against both American and international law", hinting at open-ended escalation should Obama take the podium today at 2:15pm to officially launch cyberwar against Russia.

 

Previously, on Thursday, Peskov told the AP the report was "laughable nonsense", while Russian foreign ministry spox Maria Zakharova accused "Western media" of being a "shill" and a "mouthpiece of various power groups", and added that "it's not the general public who's being manipulated," Zakharova said. "the general public nowadays can distinguish the truth. It's the mass media that is manipulating themselves."

 

Meanwhile, on Friday Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister told state television network, Russia 24, he was "dumbstruck" by the NBC report which alleges that Russian President Vladimir Putin was personally involved in an election hack.

The report cited U.S. intelligence officials that now believe with a "high level of confidence" that Putin became personally involved in a secret campaign to influence the outcome of the U.S. presidential election. "I think this is just silly, and the futility of the attempt to convince somebody of this is absolutely obvious," Lavrov added, according to the news outlet.

 

As a reminder, last night Obama vowed retaliatory action against Russia for its meddling in the US presidential election last month.  "I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections that we need to take action and we will at a time and place of our own choosing," Obama told National Public Radio.

 

US intelligence agencies in October pinned blame on Russia for election-related hacking. At the time, the White House vowed a "proportional response" to the cyberactivity, though declined to preview what that response might entail. Meanwhile, both President-elect Donald Trump, the FBI, and the ODNI have dismissed the CIA's intelligence community's assessment, for the the same reason Putin finally lashed out at Obama: there is no proof.

 

That, however, has never stopped the US from escalating a geopolitical conflict to the point of war, or beyond, so pay close attention to what Obama says this afternoon.

According to an NBC report, a team of analysts at Eurasia Group said in a note on Friday that they believe the outgoing administration is likely to take action which could result in a significant barrier for Trump's team once he takes office in January.

 

"It is unlikely that U.S. intelligence reports will change Trump's intention to initiate a rapprochement with Moscow, but the congressional response following its own investigations could obstruct the new administration's effort," Eurasia Group analysts added.

 

At the same time, Wikileaks offered its "validation" services, tweeting that "Obama should submit any Putin documents to WikiLeaks to be authenticated to our standards if he wants them to be seen as credible."

 



UnderstatedCornHole said:

 

Right well, from the get go here I'll say I agree with every single one of your points of grey areas on Trump. The important factor is that there have been so many grey areas that to argue one of them may be reasonable but to argue every single one under the guise of plausible denyiability would be disingeous, much like Russia denying involvment in Ukraine completely a couple of years ago on RT. It's plausible 50% of it is not true, it's plausible 75% of it is untrue. But it's implausible all of it is a stitch up.

I'm absolutely pro-Trump, but not to a fault; I'm not going to stand back and twist an event to suit my bias. But I would like to provide a bit of a back story, one that the Trump phenomenon has struck a cord with. (just checked your profile and you're from the UK like me so you may well be on the same page to some degree, or certainly be able to empaphise with the following).

This isn't politically correct and I'm guilty of the same thing I call the liberals out on for this, in terms of not quantifying my annoyance or concern. In essence I am sick to death of

Political correctness, dishonest politians (not liars, I mean weasils), the pussy footing around Islamic "issues" let's call them, the mainstream allegedly impartial BBC that is a beacon of hope (I need to vomit), SJWs, Youtube bloggers, liberal academic institutions, "scientiest" that have a job because of public and EU funding, neo-cons dressed as humanitarian saviours.

The fact I cannot even DISCUSS most of these topics in a public forum without the feeling that I will be made into a villain was a strong force and still is in Trump.

Back during the Ukraine situation with Crimea I watched all the news on all networks. Al Jazeeria at the time seemed the most impartial, and rightly so it had no direct vested interest, RT looked like some 2-bit recreation of the soviet era broadcasting. The BBC was fairly straight down the line in it's usual style over substance ye olde english way of not actually giving much background. CNN was a joke. Obviously all these outlets were just pouring out the government view of who was funding them.

I was so angry watching Petere Lavelle talk utter crap about Ukraine on RT, Oksana Boyko having alleged frank interviews with genuinely impartial UN representatives, and I don't mean the biased human rights wing that the BBC quotes as being the same thing as the core UN, it was a charade of epic proportions. (Just to add I'm not denying the US had some interfering there in the Ukraine).

My gripe though here is that there are no good guys, there are no bad guys, it's just one big power struggle. It just so happens when events don't impinge on a nations politics that nation's news outlets are able to be basically - honest, like Al Jazeera was.

Fast forward to the US election and we saw that same thing play out.

Trump said this, Trump said that, none of it was important or mattered to my core values of who I am or how I see the world. The introduction of feigned outrage amongst SJWs over "words" making a mainstream impact on reporting on CNN especially. Hell, Fox News had become the voice of the centre and was my go to for "fair and balanced" news!

This is one hell of a ramble to get across where I want to go and just realised it's going to take a few posts, need to have a coffee so hope can carry on shortly and actually address you directly, because I don't disagree at all in my heart or your overarching sentiment on an emotional or moral level.

I disagree with the level of value and what that means for the disputed points, how the world is really run, and it's something that has developed since that stuff in Ukraine. Back then, wrong was wrong and right was right.

Trump is not someone I would want to be my father, he is not someone I would want as a friend. He comes across quite obviously sociopathic, is he? I don't know, he needs to adopt a persona and a sociopathic one is exactly the type you need in positions where there are other power players, but from his natural ability to wade through in a subliminal way, I would strongly say I believe he is.

That sounds like strong condemnation, and if I ascribed to the liberal mantra it would be. But I don't.

Being someone of personal moral integrity is something liberals always look for, it's something liberals in power prey on. It's EASY to pull of, it's called virtue signalling and it's something even a 14 year old SJW who is so unaware of their own insignificance can do in the most honest yet ignorant way.

Politicans can do that, any politican, and well. They don't need to be good people to do it and quite the contrary. It's exploiting the concept of virtue. Obama does it as good as anyone, but Hillary mixed race and gender into that - to me that is something I don't have the word to use. The only way I can think of it is as a kind of social genocide of ones own country, treason.

 

 

Oh dear, I'm not sure if I should continue. Not really just typed from mind before and still nowhere near where want to go, well if you want to cut this apart as I'm sure it's not hard to then go for it. But again, really appreciate reading your thoughts, all good points. Maybe I need to focus a bit here :p

Just to cut to the chase, I think all politicans are evil, they all have agendas, they all have interests and I want to give Trump the benefit of the doubt because he is my only hope in the short-medium term. At this point because he is my only hope I will only prosecute him if I see guilty beyond reasonable doubt of being like all the rest. Though having said that, I'd prefer him to a liberal who exploit the human nature of desiring to be good and use it against the population. :D

 

Okay, so basically 'I'd rather do a deal with the devil than with someone dressed like an angel.' It's a sentiment I've seen crop up, from people who figure, 'eh, politicians are all totally self-interested, power-hungry liars anyway, so why not just go for the guy who is OPENLY all those things?! Least we know what we're getting!' So if we agree that Trump exhibits all those qualities I mentioned, then fair enough, I won't try to convince you he's 'a bad guy' since you already agree.

So let me instead point out two other aspects of Trump's personality; his open-for-everyone-to-gawk-at ego, and his temperament.

Now, first, the ego, which one could argue is the crux of a lot of Trump's other issues, especially his dishonesty. Trump's entire identity hinges around being a winner, but not just a winner, 'A Big Winner.' Everything he touches turns to gold, he's the smartest, has the best words, most charming, etc, etc. Even when he won the election, but lost the popular vote, he wasted little time assuring everyone that he only lost the popular vote because of voter tampering, cause The Donald NEVER loses, and The Donald NEVER settles! ;D Knock out, homerun, touchdown! *cue fireworks*

So how might this ego kick in? Well, take his approach to Taiwan.

China's in a tiff over their whole One China policy not being respected by Trump, which is likely going to be a point of contention when Trump actually makes it into office. Now, it turns out Trump isn't really doing this to make any sort of serious stand against the One China policy as a whole, i.e. 'We're not going to bow and kowtow to China, etc, etc.' Rather, statements made by his representatives indicate that he intends to use the One China policy as a bargaining chip, i.e. 'You give me trade concessions, I'll stop talking about Taiwan as if they exist. Eh? Eh? ;D '

Basically he seems determined to go all 'Art Of The Deal' on their asses, and use whatever means necessary to score 'That Big Win.' The plan being that he makes his ultimatum, China gives in, Trump comes back waving a 'Mission Accomplished' banner and making some veiled insult about Obama.

Except the government of China's OWN stubbornness and obsession with self-image match, if not dwarf, Trump's own. This is a government that has spent decades determinately trying to quash any discussion, mention or memorial to the Tiananmen Square massacre despite the fact that is is perhaps LITERALLY the worst kept secret on the face of the planet. It's why so many world leaders adhere to what is a fairly odious policy; because there's no indication China will be fucked with on this matter, and will happily shoot their own economy (and everyone else's) in the foot over the issue.

Even beyond that, it isn't hard to see that anyone who stands against or disagrees with Trump is declared all manner of terrible things, but anyone who stands WITH him or especially compliments him is a wonderful, stand-up guy, regardless of ANY other mitigating factors. If you want Trump to be 'on your side,' all you really have to do is appeal to that ego, and everything else will fall into place, which has the potential to make him pretty malleable. =P Even if there's no current link between Trump and Putin, you have to admit Putin's flattery is certainly paying off.

It's creating a climate where 'kiss the ring' isn't simply encouraged, it's almost mandatory. Trump's general dislike of protestors or any media that write something negative- even if true- about him comes from the fact that his ego demands constant stroking.

*****

And then there's his temperament. I believe, in between the whole CIA thing, he had time to get miffed at Vanity Fair because they posted a scathing review of the Trump Grill (or Grille depending on which sign you read,) which of course took him to Twitter. saturday Night Live, the president of Carrier's union, some random teenage girl that spoke against Trump, that beauty queen Hillary mentioned in one of her debates, the cast of Hamilton, Trump's rather consistently veered off course to blast anyone who adopts even a moderately critical tone of him or his coming administration.

I'm trying to picture Obama doing that about Trump during the birther incidents. 'Stupid Donald Dump, learn to read a birth certificate! Go back to your third bankruptcy. #presidenthasspoken #winning'

The President-Elect is a guy who, even with the election won, can't seem to let shit slide, even small stuff. The term 'triggered' comes to mind, and in some cases his target isn't even the person that triggered him, but is just tangentially related.

What happens when another world leader criticizes some policy Trump has made or, GOD FORBID, said they didn't like eating at Trump Grill(e)? 'Boy, UK, they used to have an Empire, now they can barely keep Scotland. #failnation #trumpwins '  'Gosh, Canada is noisy, maybe we should just make them our 51st state! #ManifestDestiny #ReadyTheTroops' 'European Union who? Unions are so completely worthless and they're run only by dumb crooks! #ExceptSoviet #BreakUpTheParty'

Those examples are obviously more an attempt at humor, but Trump hasn't actually shown enough restraint to suggest he WOULDN'T casually joke or hint at acts of war, nuclear weapons, etc, or respond to criticism aggressively. Screwing with the Geneva conventions and going after the non-combatant families of terrorists as a matter of policy were freaking CAMPAIGN statements when he was running in the primary, and he didn't even need someone to poke at him for those!

One angry tweet from him could set an entire military on alert, which is why if nothing else I REALLY hope someone takes Twitter away from him when he takes office. The idea of a 'direct line to the president's thoughts' is an interesting one, but Trump seems to lack the filter that would keep it from turning into a disaster. =P



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

The conspiracy theory that Russia somehow hacked the elections still continues ...

This is almost as bad as the conjectures you would find from Alex Jones, probably worse since Obama needs to get his head checked out unless he wants to risk having just as bad as a legacy dubya did ...

The peaceful transfer of power won't be practiced this time I guess ...



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So still no information what has been "hacked"?

Clinton's illegal server that only contained emails about yoga and wedding (it didn't)?

The recount that gave Trump additional votes?

Saudi Arabia and other dictatorships that gave millions to Clinton?

Maybe Hillary's lazy campaign schedule was hacked by Putin?




To be fair: if the DNC want so crooked, being exposed wouldn't have been a problem.

Are Republicans any less crooked? No. But they're supposed to be better.



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Leaked footage shows secret bromance

 



padib said:
Russia wanted to avoid a 3rd world war, so they helped get Trump elected. It was a good move.

Better US-Russia relations = good thing for the entire planet.

More like they are buddying up in the hopes of having sanctions lifted.

As for it being good for the entire planet, EU seems pretty afraid of Trump easing up on Russia



#1 Amb-ass-ador

padib said:
ReimTime said:

More like they are buddying up in the hopes of having sanctions lifted.

As for it being good for the entire planet, EU seems pretty afraid of Trump easing up on Russia

Of course they are. They want to control Russia. That's what is causing tension.

Russia is a sovereign nation. If the EU wants to bully them, it's bad news. I prefer that sanctions lift and that tensions reduce, so the west has a better relationship with Russia. That way, Russia can learn from our openness and care-free progressive nature, and evolve from their somewhat antiquated ways of conquest. The best way to win them over is by working more closely with them and building a good relationship. That way we can actually have a positive infulence on them and vice-versa.

Then again, in my book the US has done much more harm in foreign policy and conquest than Russia has, especially in ruining the middle-east.

It somewhat affects me personally because I am half middle-eastern and it affects my everyday life, because people sometimes look at me and think "TERRORIST!!!!" (think Harold and Kumar lol). You'll ask "how do you know what they're thinking?" Well because sometimes they end up verbalizing it... I have stories.

Not that the US is an angel, but neither is Russia. No European country is threatening Russia's sovereignty.  Russia is the one that's moved into Georgia and Ukraine, which are sovereign countries. Pretty sure the fall of the Soviet Union happened, but they continue to act aggressively towards their former Soviet blocs, like a divorced husband who shows up to his ex-wife's work thinking he can boss her around.