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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Spencer: Scorpio Isn’t Trying To Compete with High-End Rigs, It’ll Have Console Price Point

Curious as to what the price will be in Canada. Sony ate a decent loss up here with the Pro.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

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Darc Requiem said:
pray4mojo said:

Because they failed. Sony didn't though. The PS2 was sold at a huge loss. I'd like to see that sort of idea return to console gaming.

The PS2 wasn't sold for near the loss of the Xbox. 

No, of course not. But it was a big loss. One of the reasons console's have lost that graphical wow factor in comparison to those gens is due to abandoning that old concept. As a consumer and not a manufactor or stock holder, I just want the best hardware for the best price and that's one of the ways they could do it.



He means Neo Geo/3DO console price point



celador said:
I think you have to make a console very attractive to justify it being more than $500, so I think that will be the absolute limit. $450 though would be my guess.

^This

Pro was made very attractive for the large game catalog areadly put in the OG PS4. XBone doenst have that many games/exclusives to justify big price.  MS will have to put a lot of effort in the time being for when the Scorpio comes, itll be attractive because of power and game catalog. Otherwise itll flop.



                          

"We all make choices, but in the end, our choices make us" - Andrew Ryan, Bioshock.

Imaginedvl said:
DonFerrari said:
                                         

Scorpio launching at 499-599 isn't going to steal no thunder from PS4. Even Pro were very small sales compared to PS4 vanila and that was during BF from a 249 vs 340. Considering X1 is doing worse than vanilla PS4 and it will be a 499 Scorpio versus a 199 X1 I think Scorpio won't be smoking hot sales. Defining a console as enthusiastic level certainly can't be accompanied with high sales expectatives.

We will finally take out 2 myths... First that PS4 sold better than X1 due to price (it was part on it, but after initial reception X1 undercut PS4 and still undersold, GC also undercut PS2 and undersold) or power (because Scorpio will be stronger than PS4 and PS4Pro but will probably sell lower than X1S that is weaker than the 3).

Just because you are stating this or calling them a myth does not make it an actual fact.

Obviously there is no real way to prove it in either way but I definitely believe The PS4 sold better because of the price mainly. And then it was just a domino effect.

As far as the power, it helped but again, it goes to the first point. Having a more powerful console for a lower price just did it.

 

Not just because.

There were cheaper competitors to Playstation 1,2,3 and 4. They all have some or another disavantage that made they sell worse than PS. On Power, N64 was stronger than PS1, Xbox and GC (and GC was cheaper) was stronger than PS2, X360 equivalent to PS3. In all those situation Playstation were able to outsell the competitors. This is basically the first time it was able to be the stronger console and the cheaper one (if we ignore WiiU and talk only launch).

So nope, Price and Power alone (and even combined) weren't the solo factors for PS win, perhaps only in USA and UK you can say that, Rest of the World the brand is so stronger than MS and Nintendo in gaming that even when more expensive and weaker they outsell them dearly.

EricHiggin said:
DonFerrari said:

Scorpio launching at 499-599 isn't going to steal no thunder from PS4. Even Pro were very small sales compared to PS4 vanila and that was during BF from a 249 vs 340. Considering X1 is doing worse than vanilla PS4 and it will be a 499 Scorpio versus a 199 X1 I think Scorpio won't be smoking hot sales. Defining a console as enthusiastic level certainly can't be accompanied with high sales expectatives.

If Scorpio is higher than $499 at launch, then PS4 doesn't have to worry all that much for a while. It depends a lot on the price vs performance.

If MS ships a 12GB GDDR5, 6Tflop Polaris/Vega, with Jaguar/Puma for $399, it'll sell ok. If they use Zen, and sell it for $499, I think it will do even better. It's not going to completely turn the tables on PS4, but it will steal momentum from it, just like how 360 stole PS2's momentum. People are always looking to the newest hottest tech, and some XB fans are dying to get back into the specs lead.

MS would be crazy to try and fight out this gen. Its done. XB will not make up any more ground then they have already. The best thing for MS to do, is pull another 360, and launch "next gen" early and get ahead of PS5. MS right now cannot compete with PS on games, so the only logical thing to do, is launch an up to date, powerful, yet boarderline expensive console, sell to the die hards for $499, then drop it $50 to $100 by fall 2018 and really get sales moving.

Yes at 399 it will sell ok, but at that time PS4Pro could be at 299 and PS4 vanilla and X1S at 199. And Scorpio unless MS goes back on their word Scorpio won't have any exclusives (besides AR/VR), so the only reason to buy Scorpio would be to play better versions of X1S but that is already covered on the play anywhere initiative. So there will be a very thin maneuver margin for Scorpio unless they are very aggresive.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Imaginedvl said:

Just because you are stating this or calling them a myth does not make it an actual fact.

Obviously there is no real way to prove it in either way but I definitely believe The PS4 sold better because of the price mainly. And then it was just a domino effect.

As far as the power, it helped but again, it goes to the first point. Having a more powerful console for a lower price just did it.

 

Not just because.

There were cheaper competitors to Playstation 1,2,3 and 4. They all have some or another disavantage that made they sell worse than PS. On Power, N64 was stronger than PS1, Xbox and GC (and GC was cheaper) was stronger than PS2, X360 equivalent to PS3. In all those situation Playstation were able to outsell the competitors. This is basically the first time it was able to be the stronger console and the cheaper one (if we ignore WiiU and talk only launch).

So nope, Price and Power alone (and even combined) weren't the solo factors for PS win, perhaps only in USA and UK you can say that, Rest of the World the brand is so stronger than MS and Nintendo in gaming that even when more expensive and weaker they outsell them dearly.

 

N64 was stronger than Xbox; please come again?... And No, the Play Station Four did not have ANY competitor at a cheaper price other than the Xbox One.
I'm done talking about this; at this points all you do is coming out with random statements like that to defend your point.

Price (for the same kind of console + more power) was the biggest advantage of the Play Station Four over the Xbox One for the mass market which represents the majority of buyers, not Sony enthusiasts. And then the domino effects just propulsed the Play Station Four like crazy and it was just too late for the Xbox One. End of story.



Imaginedvl said:
DonFerrari said:

Not just because.

There were cheaper competitors to Playstation 1,2,3 and 4. They all have some or another disavantage that made they sell worse than PS. On Power, N64 was stronger than PS1, Xbox and GC (and GC was cheaper) was stronger than PS2, X360 equivalent to PS3. In all those situation Playstation were able to outsell the competitors. This is basically the first time it was able to be the stronger console and the cheaper one (if we ignore WiiU and talk only launch).

So nope, Price and Power alone (and even combined) weren't the solo factors for PS win, perhaps only in USA and UK you can say that, Rest of the World the brand is so stronger than MS and Nintendo in gaming that even when more expensive and weaker they outsell them dearly.

N64 was stronger than Xbox; please come again?... And No, the Play Station Four did not have ANY competitor at a cheaper price other than the Xbox One.
I'm done talking about this; at this points all you do is coming out with random statements like that to defend your point.

Price (for the same kind of console + more power) was the biggest advantage of the Play Station Four over the Xbox One for the mass market which represents the majority of buyers, not Sony enthusiasts. And then the domino effects just propulsed the Play Station Four like crazy and it was just too late for the Xbox One. End of story.

Nope, I was saying N64 was stronger than PS1, and that Xbox and GC were stronger than PS2...

WiiU isn't a competitor? I sure see it being sold.

What is random on it?

 

You can say that Price+Power were the biggest advantage... but yet history have show that isn't true. All generations PS wasn't the the cheapest neither the strongest (except PS3 that was marginally stronger than X360) but it still sold much more than the competitors. Even on PS3 with it being much more expensive than Wii and X360 PS3 was able to gain terrain (aligned sales it was never lower than X360).

You may claim you won and leave the discussion if you want, that won't make you any more right or make Scorpio+X1 outsell PS4Pro+PS4



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Imaginedvl said:

N64 was stronger than Xbox; please come again?... And No, the Play Station Four did not have ANY competitor at a cheaper price other than the Xbox One.
I'm done talking about this; at this points all you do is coming out with random statements like that to defend your point.

Price (for the same kind of console + more power) was the biggest advantage of the Play Station Four over the Xbox One for the mass market which represents the majority of buyers, not Sony enthusiasts. And then the domino effects just propulsed the Play Station Four like crazy and it was just too late for the Xbox One. End of story.

Nope, I was saying N64 was stronger than PS1, and that Xbox and GC were stronger than PS2...

WiiU isn't a competitor? I sure see it being sold.

What is random on it?

 

You can say that Price+Power were the biggest advantage... but yet history have show that isn't true. All generations PS wasn't the the cheapest neither the strongest (except PS3 that was marginally stronger than X360) but it still sold much more than the competitors. Even on PS3 with it being much more expensive than Wii and X360 PS3 was able to gain terrain (aligned sales it was never lower than X360).

You may claim you won and leave the discussion if you want, that won't make you any more right or make Scorpio+X1 outsell PS4Pro+PS4

WiiU Is not in the same league, simple. The only competitor to the Play Station Four was the Xbox One. It is ridiculous to put the WiiU in the same league. I understand it fits in your agenda but it is just not a competitor to the Xbox One / Play Station Four; plain and simple.

And all the example you are coming from are nowhere close to what happened with the Play Station Four... Actually even the Play Station Three is a very good example of how the price affected its launch even if the Play Station Two dominated the market (as well as made the Play Station brand very strong). They achieved parity because of the brand afterward but did not get a head start BECAUSE of the price at first. If they would have come with a similar price (than the 360); I'm 100% convinced we would have been in the same situation than today with the Play Station Four, because again, price is what matter the MOST.

At the end; that what I believe (and I'm far from being the only one). I'm not calling anything a "myth" when I cannot prove it thought.

Also I'm not claiming anything (but have fun going on with your I win/I lose thing if it is important for you).



Imaginedvl said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope, I was saying N64 was stronger than PS1, and that Xbox and GC were stronger than PS2...

WiiU isn't a competitor? I sure see it being sold.

What is random on it?

 

You can say that Price+Power were the biggest advantage... but yet history have show that isn't true. All generations PS wasn't the the cheapest neither the strongest (except PS3 that was marginally stronger than X360) but it still sold much more than the competitors. Even on PS3 with it being much more expensive than Wii and X360 PS3 was able to gain terrain (aligned sales it was never lower than X360).

You may claim you won and leave the discussion if you want, that won't make you any more right or make Scorpio+X1 outsell PS4Pro+PS4

WiiU Is not in the same league, simple. The only competitor to the Play Station Four was the Xbox One. It is ridiculous to put the WiiU in the same league. I understand it fits in your agenda but it is just not a competitor to the Xbox One / Play Station Four; plain and simple.

And all the example you are coming from are nowhere close to what happened with the Play Station Four... Actually even the Play Station Three is a very good example of how the price affected its launch even if the Play Station Two dominated the market (as well as made the Play Station brand very strong). They achieved parity because of the brand afterward but did not get a head start BECAUSE of the price at first. If they would have come with a similar price (than the 360); I'm 100% convinced we would have been in the same situation than today with the Play Station Four, because again, price is what matter the MOST.

At the end; that what I believe (and I'm far from being the only one). I'm not calling anything a "myth" when I cannot prove it thought.

Also I'm not claiming anything (but have fun going on with your I win/I lose thing if it is important for you).

Tell that to WiiU consumers. The HW is being sold in the same generation and have very competent SW. Or you want me to disregard Xbox as competitor to PS because now with play anywhere there isn't any need for the HW anymore?

Nowhere close? Power haven't been the deciding factor (a lot of people even put the myth that the stronger console never sells the most) neither the price since the highest selling haven't always been the cheaper option (although it's one of the major factors).

PS3 even without a great HS still outsold X360 launch aligned month to month since the beggining. And even without aligning X360 only had a very large lead during the gen because of USA. In USA I can accept that Price+Power is basically the most import aspect, but WW neither of those will help Scorpio.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Imaginedvl said:

WiiU Is not in the same league, simple. The only competitor to the Play Station Four was the Xbox One. It is ridiculous to put the WiiU in the same league. I understand it fits in your agenda but it is just not a competitor to the Xbox One / Play Station Four; plain and simple.

And all the example you are coming from are nowhere close to what happened with the Play Station Four... Actually even the Play Station Three is a very good example of how the price affected its launch even if the Play Station Two dominated the market (as well as made the Play Station brand very strong). They achieved parity because of the brand afterward but did not get a head start BECAUSE of the price at first. If they would have come with a similar price (than the 360); I'm 100% convinced we would have been in the same situation than today with the Play Station Four, because again, price is what matter the MOST.

At the end; that what I believe (and I'm far from being the only one). I'm not calling anything a "myth" when I cannot prove it thought.

Also I'm not claiming anything (but have fun going on with your I win/I lose thing if it is important for you).

Tell that to WiiU consumers. The HW is being sold in the same generation and have very competent SW. Or you want me to disregard Xbox as competitor to PS because now with play anywhere there isn't any need for the HW anymore?

Nowhere close? Power haven't been the deciding factor (a lot of people even put the myth that the stronger console never sells the most) neither the price since the highest selling haven't always been the cheaper option (although it's one of the major factors).

PS3 even without a great HS still outsold X360 launch aligned month to month since the beggining. And even without aligning X360 only had a very large lead during the gen because of USA. In USA I can accept that Price+Power is basically the most import aspect, but WW neither of those will help Scorpio.

Okay, this makes no sense but fine; it is okay to have you own belief/oppinion at the end.