Quantcast
Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Trump supporters stand by debunked claim

teamsilent13 said:

I don't see 3 million anywhere I do want to stress this, but I don't see how it is debunked. I've talked to many people who live in California who say that illegals can easily get licenses and they have seen people they knew were illegal vote before. That is anecodotal evidence so I won't say it equals any number reaching 3 million. Obviously by rules they are not suppose to vote, but I can easily believe the numbers can and were inflated in california due to illegal immigration. Wasn't there a video where ICE officials told Trump that illegals were not being deported because of democrats wanting them to vote? 

The burden of proof for 3 million relies on the Trump supporters. However, the reasoning for why there was no voter fraud doesn't convince me at all. So it wasn't debunked. It was never proven in the first place to me so I definately need more evidence regardless. So it's something I hope Trump supporters look into more, but I don't have an opinion beyond that, and I would never say 3 million without evidence.

I voted for Trump. I have very conservative relgious relatives that did not even vote at all. My oldest brother is a militant atheist and this is only the second time he voted for a Republican, he has voted for Nader in the past and a couple Democrats. I believe Trump got less Republican evangelicals that McCain or Romney and less Mormons. Someone also told me southerns overall, but I haven't seen any proof, but I did see him get more % of hispanics and african americans and lower % of evangelicals and mormons...so overall Trump won without the entire Republican Party. 

I don't think anyone is denying that voter fraud has occured. After all, there was one case for sure of a voter who tried to vote multiple times, and was caught. And he was even a Trump supporter.
What people (political researchers, etc) are saying is that there's no evidence of large scale voter fraud. And specifically in-person-voter-fraud (which is the most difficult one to get away with), and at such a scale that it would impact the outcome of an election. Roughly 147 million people voted during this election. You'd need around 1,4 million votes to match even 1% of that.

Also, I don't think the supposed issue is that illegal immigrants are voting. Because they would only vote for what they want, just like if they were legal citicens. The accusation is that organisations with an agenda are registering votes using the names of unqualified voters (whether they are dead or whatever) to vote for a specific party. A conspiracy, basically. And while I'm sure these things do happen, experts say that it happening at a large scale is not realistic.



Around the Network

We all have confirmation bias (the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories), I dare anyone to seriously say they don't. Sometimes the more educated you are the more you believe your own views, as education is its own confirmation



Shadow1980 said:

While not all conservatives believe outlandish nonsense, I cannot help but notice how American conservatism in general has become more and more open to rejecting objective reality. Bircher-style paranoia is becoming ever more mainstream. We are, after all, talking about a political movement where the majority of its members think that not only is the scientific consensus on global warming is wrong, but that the science is part of some vast left-wing hoax designed to destroy America's economy or something else equally nefarious. We have dozens of Congressmen and now also a president-elect who parrot this nonsense. AGW denialism has become increasingly ingrained into the very notion of what it means to be a conservative. More and more it's becoming part of their identity. Fewer than one in four Republicans accept the scientific consensus that global warming is real and predominantly due to human activities.

If you can be convinced to reject physical reality itself, you can be convinced of a host of other outlandish claims supported by zero evidence. Even in 2016, less than 30% of Republicans agree with the statement "Barack Obama was born in the United States." And most relevant to this discussion, at least 60% of Republicans believe voter fraud is common. Again, we have conservative people in positions of political power who either refuse to fight against these obviously false ideas, or they believe in them themselves. This is not healthy.

They say that all stereotypes have an element of truth to them. While support for science denialism or Birtherism or voter fraud conspiracies are not unanimous, they are present in an overwhelmingly majority of the conservative populace.

To be fair, there are plenty of liberals who believe ridiculous things, but in every case I can find, support for such notions is far, far from mainstream, and in many cases it has no significant ideological component (liberals and conservatives are both just as likely to be anti-vax or anti-GMO, for example, and such views are a relatively small minority). The "paranoid style" is largely a conservative phenomenon in today's America.

There are deniers of global warming because there is NO consesus among scientists.  Nor has there ever been.  The same tired report that is always quoted is taken out of context.  There was a lot more questions than is global warming real and caused by humans or is it not real.  Scientists included in that 98% include people who said it MAY be real, but don't believe it is man caused.  People who think it MAY be real, and man MAY contribute to it.  People who think it MAY be real, and man contributes to it, BUT not in any significant way.  People who believe it is real, BUT man doesn't contribute to it.  People who believe it is real, and man MAY contribute to it.  And people who believe it is real, and man contributes to it, BUT not in any significant way.  If I remember correctly, it was much less than half who actually believed it was definitely a thing and definitely was caused by man to a significant degree.  So, you may want to actually research that before just blindly spouting it. 

You may also want to ask yourself that when multiple scientists who believed it was real and man significantly affects it gave their projections for warming in the future, why ALL of them were off by great margins.  Even the ones who "lowballed" how hot it was supposed to get.  We've even had a "warming pause," as they like to put it, for more than a decade.  Why they said we would be under water by now, yet we aren't.  Why they said we would have far more hurricanes, yet we have had fewer.  Why it was originally called glaobal cooling, and they even wanted the government to dump coal in the artic to warm the planet back up.  Then, when they were wrong and the climate slightly warmed, they switched to global warming.  Then when the data didn't support it and they couldn't get what they wanted done, they changed it to climate change.  How convenient.  Now, they can point to anything that seems slightly out of order, and scream, "Climate Change, got to do something."

But, here's the largest piece of evidence the people in power who spout that nonsense don't believe it.  Why is it that those in power who scream climate change the most, all have multiple houses that suck energy far beyond a normal household?  Make sure they fly in private jets, burning hundreds of thousands, if not millions of gallons of jet fuel a year?  Drive nice cars that burn more fuel than a hybrid or electric car, something they should be driving?  Answer.  They don't give a crap about the environment, don't believe in climate change themselves, and just use it as a talking point to gain more power and wealth.  Even Bernie is getting a private jet, now.  What hypocrites.



deskpro2k3 said:
coolbeans said:

*Posting a video captioning a reporter facepalming*

*Makes a facile analysis worthy of that same reaction*

Welp...

 

I don't think you've thought this out. Can you be less vague?

Are you trying to say my statement is not true, and If so how do you vote then? Please explain, I'll give you some time to think it over.

Where's the vagueness?

I used the term "facile" to specifically point out your neat little explanation to disregard the complexities of the topic, namely potential voter fraud.  



http://n4g.com/user/blogpost/coolbeans/539766

http://n4g.com/user/blogpost/coolbeans/539767

(2-part retrospective blog on Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare's campaign)

Rab said:

We all have confirmation bias (the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories), I dare anyone to seriously say they don't. Sometimes the more educated you are the more you believe your own views, as education is its own confirmation

We also have people who fact check, and those who don't. That's the problem here. They cite "news networks" and "facebook/google", but the origin of this is actually from a guy named Greg Philips who refuse to name his sources.

These people who are convinced without fact checking are a danger to themselves and others when they can be so easily manipulated.



Around the Network
aLkaLiNE said:
Hiku said:

I mean there's a frightening amount of these kind of people who don't fact check and easily believe in absurd notions. That's simply something that Trump's campaign took more advantage of. Of course not all of his supporters fall into that category.
On top of that there are just other scary things in general. Check out what appeared on a ballot in South Carolina.



http://mashable.com/2014/11/06/south-carolina-racist-exit-poll/#X33233phukqt
http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/blacks-getting-too-demanding-exit-poll-asks-voters/
http://www.aol.com/article/news/2016/11/07/sc-exit-polls-asks-if-blacks-are-too-demanding-over-equal-righ/21600340/

How is this a question in 2016?
If a minority group are still pushing for equal rights, that means they don't have equal rights.

I'm not joking when I say that my view on humanity changed a bit during the past few years, for many reasons.
I always knew these things were around us, but it seems a lot more common than I ever imagined.

There are uneducated people that can easily be taken advantage of. This is not some new occurrence that arrived with trump, and I've seen just as many people post clueless or regurgitated garbage from the Hilary camp. One glance at my Facebook feed enforces that on a daily basis. Anyway, yes there are a ton of terrible people that backed our president elect. There's also a lot of intelligent and good people that did too. The exact same holds true for Hilary, Bernie and any other figurehead that is supposed to represent ideals, values, beliefs etc

I don't think the concern is whether or not these things existed before Trump, but it's more that people feel comfortable enough to act on such matters because they now have a mainstream vehicle to do so... I'm sure that every person on this planet is capable of committing murder under certain circumstances, but whether they act on those impulses is the key factor here. 



double post



coolbeans said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

I don't think you've thought this out. Can you be less vague?

Are you trying to say my statement is not true, and If so how do you vote then? Please explain, I'll give you some time to think it over.

Where's the vagueness?

I used the term "facile" to specifically point out your neat little explanation to disregard the complexities of the topic, namely potential voter fraud.  

Now you're being specific. This is what I think is happening. You use my statement, and added your own pretense. Like I said, you did not thought this through. now that is double facepalm worthy.

Just for fun let me make it less facile:

In order to vote, you have to be registered; in order to register, you have to be a citizen. Your name is then entered with all the information on the poll book, which are kept in the voting poll location at which a citizen is registered to vote.

     An illegal immigrant will have to know the name of a registered voter.

     They'll have to know where the citizen is registered to vote.

     They'll have to know where to sign their name to collect the ballot.

They'll have to know all these things, and even have I.D. and hope that they get there before the valid voter does. That is a hard thing to pull off.



With hillary followers, all you have to do is call them out on their hypocrisy. With Trump supporters...intelligence comes into question. (not for all...but ones as gullible as that lady)



deskpro2k3 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Fair enough, its evident you believe illegals are voting. That's a valid concern.

The lady just shouldnt have given the 3 million figure.

I didn't give an answer, but lets get serious.

Undocumented immigrants have been allowed to vote in some local elections but for no office higher than town council.  

The only way a person can vote twice or more on the same day is if they do what Ann Coulter did. Register to vote in more than one voting district and don’t get caught.

I don't understand why illegal immigrants can vote at all.

Illegals are voting for presidents, its not a debate. So dems tend to avoid that issue by arguing how many. Obvoiously it doesn't concern dems because we assume it benefits them.

The voting twice thing isn't relevant but another problem.



Recently Completed
Crackdown 3
for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)