Not exactly. Marketing people exist for a reason. They found out what we already knew, i.e. that the number of people willing to buy UHD blu ray players and 4k Blu rays is tiny. So it would be a bad business decision to include something most people will never use and force them to pay for it.

Read my sentence again. I was very clear. I never said that the UHD blu ray alone would make it super expensive, but an effort to make it better at everything than the competitor (hence the bolded). The argument was that you should never give the consumer a reason to buy another product. No, you absolutely should. If only a few consumers actually care about that and more care about the sub 400 USD price, then you should go with the lower price. The marketing team probably saw that 400 was as high as they could go. 399 probably sounds better than 420 to the average cosumer.

I think the real reason UHD Blu-Ray is not in the PS4 Pro is because they want to sell standalone UHD Blu-Ray players.

As there is no "format war" this time, Sony isn't as hot on pushing the format in Playstations.

Yep, people here defend all the time that PS4 sold more because was cheaper (until X1 got cheaper and still outsolded by PS4 but then it was momentum... and now on BF again people said PS4 sold more because it was cheaper) but when we talk about the driver making the console cost 20 bucks more (or 20 less profit per sold console) then they act like 20 is nothing. Yes on substance it's quite irrelavant, but as a mental barrier it's quite effective.

The only mistep Sony has committed this gen for me is resting on their lead too much and not delivering enough games. 2017 and 2018 looks pretty stacked though. And I am not faulting Sony for being lazy with success, both other companies have done it too.

As pointed out in the other thread, Sony has either developed or published 9 new IP's this gen. Microsoft has either developed or published 9 new IP's this gen. Nintendo is the only one slacking in this regard, AFAIK they only have 3, not counting handheld.

The way you talk you'd think the difference between Sony and the closest competitor would be staggering, not a literal tie.

Yes. Even with all the missteps that have seen them galvanize their position as the industry leader. Again. They have redeemed themselves. In the face of overwhelming success. "What's real and what's my reflection?" - Juliette Lewis, GTA IV. For real tho. Lack of 4K BR support on the Pro is a bit of a negative for me.

Not putting a 4k blu-ray player that drives up the cost of the hardware still isn't a mistake to me. I'm still not convinced that a full swing back to physical media is underway. Raising the price on PSN sucked though. But yeah, there's sweet games on the console from both sides of the pond, and that makes it a better value alone.

I would say since about 2011 Sony has been great to me with the PS3, PSV, and PS4 libraries.

I can forgive about anything if the games keep coming and for 5 years they have been for me.

Look im not trying to say im right and you are wrong. Thats not my approach in this discussion, if thats yours then cool we can call it a day. I'm simply saying what i believe would have been a better approach - in my opinion.

There is already a cheaper SKU to appeal to the market who is interested in a cheaper option.And i fully understand trying to keep down costs on that SKU, for the exact reasons you mentioned. You are not forced to purchase the expensive SKU.

Since you have the cheaper segment sorted, you dont have to make it the sole focus of the premium SKU. This SKU could have been used to add the UDH blue ray drive, at minimal cost, to add value to the consumer, more clearly define the premium/pro experience and directly compete with Xbox. I dont agree with what you said about giving the consumer a reason to go with the competition. If sony had unlimited funds they would have every single feature the competition has.

Doing that you also gain mindshare and hype. Which is something you cant put a value to.

Regardless, both approaches have merit, and im not trying to say the approach Sony took was bad. I can understand the decisions they have made. I am simply saying the alternative would have been better in my opinion. Thats all.

With regards to numbers and marketing my words were: "Theres no way to get those exact numbers". Its impossible to get the exact numbers and to fully evaluate the extent of adding or not adding a feature to a global electronic product. No matter how extensive your marketing team and research is, exact numbers is impossible.  But this really wasnt the point of my post.

Also with regards to making the product better than the competition in every way. I am not implying that if MS decides to include a 3D printer in every Xbox that Sony should automatically follow suite. No. Obviously it should be a product feature that makes sense in the context that the product finds itself in. In this case, since both consoles already have blue ray there is precedant to have the top of the range blue ray drive.

The biggest problem is that the best games on ps4 are 3rd partys.....