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Forums - Movies & TV - Blu-Ray isn`t dead, but it also isn`t the DVD killer

I just watched The Revenant last night on UHD Blu Ray and I have to say it far exceeded my expectations. Here in Australia 4K streaming is still difficult due to shitty internet speeds.
I still consider Blu Ray to be the benchmark and it is now over 10 years old as a format with many great years to come IMO.



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Funny because when gamers talked about the difference between 1080p and 900p, they made it seem like it made the worlds difference yet a format like DvD is still what people prefer which offers an even worse image quality to Blu Ray.
4k is in a much better spot than Blu-Ray due to the amount of Apps and Features which all support 4k. Many 4k owners dont even need a disk drive. Unfortunately for Blu Ray, it had to go head to head agasint the cheaper DvD which it failed upon. UHD doesn't have to compete in the phyical media, it has the luxury of fast Internet and full support by many digital means.



irstupid said:
mutantsushi said:

I believe you both misunderstand the meaning of the term "bandwidth".  
It refers to the RATE of data transfer, not the total amount.
So indeed, you can download the same size file with an arbitrarily smaller bandwidth, it just takes longer.

And to the broader point, it ISN'T the same video file, current 4k streaming is massively compressed vs. what UHD discs provide.
As another poster stated, the (playback) bandwidth rating 4k streaming is roughly similar to normal Blu Ray discs.

I've heard that the sales curve for UHD TVs and the like is significantly outperforming original HD TVs.
So curious how that reflects oh UHD-BD.  Could very well be that HD was not considered worth it, while UHD is.
And it also is due to profiteering by media companies wanting to charge premium prices for BD, and now UHD. 
I think there will also be a future dynamic from if streaming gains enough, physical channels will want to compete more.
(and the ultimate potential profits from price-gouging UHD-BD discs becomes less than if charged reasonable price to larger market)
So they might very well insist on getting UHD-BD discs at non-price-gouging prices, to better compete with streaming.
And at that point, media companies may well play along, so that they will not be prisoner to streaming oligopolies.

I've read that UHD discs are outperforming Blu Ray Discs in the same time frame. 

But you can add me to the list of buyers now. Yesterday I purchased a One S for $215 and also 6 4k movies.

Was gonna wait till Scorpio, but figured, what the heck. It was a good deal and I can trade in One S for a hundred bucks or something for the scorpio if I want it. ONly reason I got One S was for the 4k player, so doubtful I'll need to upgrade seeing as I don't play many ps/xbox games at all.

That was only mentioned in the first few months of UHD releases, it's been quiet since June.

That comparison was made against the first few months of blu-ray where
- Initial blu-ray players were $1000 or more, vs UHD players that started at $400.
- HD DVD had already launched earlier and was more affordable.
- 1080p tvs were only just coming out while 4K has been on the market for several years and is already much cheaper.

Then when the ps3 came out things changed drastically and HD-DVD was pretty much done despite stunting with upto 10 free movies included with players and selling the movies for less than dvd prices!


XBox One S has been selling very well, however not a peep about any uptake in UHD disc sales...

It's a shame, I love the superior quality and extras that discs deliver. Yet 4K UHD seems a half assed effort from the get go. Disc size only doubled, compared to over 5 times from DVD to Blu-ray. Max Bandwidth also only doubled, compared to over 5 times from DVD to Blu-ray. (Step from mpeg2 to h.264 is about the same as h.264 to h.265) Audio went from lossy 5.1 to lossless 7.1 as well as dolby atmos on blu-ray. No changes to UHD. Early 4K disc format promised 12 bit rec.2020 4:4:4 video, ended up being 10 bit DCI P3 (subset of rec.2020) with the same 4:2:0 chroma subsampling as on blu-ray.

It might be a big step from DVD and Netflix HD, yet coming from blu-ray, if it wasn't for HDR it would be kinda pointless. Of course there's no reason not to add HDR to standard blu-ray other than pushing for a new format and sell 4K tvs. A 1080p tv with HDR would look fantastic as well.

Selling 4K tvs with 4K UHD discs works as well ofcourse. It's the only (near) 4K content you can get.



tripenfall said:
I just watched The Revenant last night on UHD Blu Ray and I have to say it far exceeded my expectations. Here in Australia 4K streaming is still difficult due to shitty internet speeds.
I still consider Blu Ray to be the benchmark and it is now over 10 years old as a format with many great years to come IMO.

I watched it on blu-ray, it's one of the highest quality blu-rays I've seen, thanks to downsampling from a movie produced from 6K sources. Only Baraka and Samsara surpass it (those were scanned at 8K from 70mm originals and mastered in 4K before getting downsampled to blu-ray)

There's still plenty life left in blu-ray. 4K mastered blu-rays stand above the rest. No wonder as scaling 2K masters (2048x1080) to 1920x1080 was never ideal.



Convenience and price trumps quality for the vast majority of consumers (up to a certain point anyway). Blu-rays are still more expensive than DVDs, and in western countries don't even get me started on streaming which is superior in those two regards to both.



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Teeqoz said:

Convenience and price trumps quality for the vast majority of consumers (up to a certain point anyway). Blu-rays are still more expensive than DVDs, and in western countries don't even get me started on streaming which is superior in those two regards to both.

I was just checking if prices were getting more reasonable yet, guess not.
Star Trek Beyond on Amazon.ca DVD 9.97, Blu-Ray 12.99, Blu-ray 3D 29.99, 4K UHD 34.99 A few older ones are on sale, Hunger games 4K UHD for 19.99 is the best deal, still twice as much as the blu-ray, dvd sells for 5.00. Most are 34.99 though, old or new.

4 formats next to each other is kind of a mess too. No 3D option for 4K yet to complete the set. Most 4K releases don't come with blu-rays either, while most blu-rays still come with DVDs. It doesn't make sense, not helping the transition. I know I'll eventually end up with 4k. It would be sooner if I already had some 4K discs. Yet the high prices and no blu-ray to watch until then is not helping.

Actually the only movie that's on my list with 4K + blu-ray release is Secret life of pets. Not that I want to see that in 4K (My kids want it, which means it will be watched over and over if it's a hit) plus it's not even rendered in 4K (2K digital intermediate). And it's still $32.96 for an upscaled movie without HDR. I'll pass.

Snowden is another movie I want. That one was shot at 6K and was mastered in 4K, yet doesn't get a 4K UHD release. At least it should look great downsampled to blu-ray.

The only effect that 4K UHD has had so far is that Amazon.ca has upped their minimum amount for free shipping to CAD 35, 1 cent more than 4K UHD discs cost.


Some numbers for the OP

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2016

1
Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 5,210,534 $130,996,252 Buy
2 Deadpool 2,944,193 $57,464,397 Buy
3 Zootopia 2,188,278 $46,362,770 Buy
4 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 2,047,408 $48,526,616 Buy
5 Captain America: Civil War 2,010,194 $40,123,472 Buy
6 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,362,275 $26,822,998 Buy
7 The Good Dinosaur 1,288,162 $28,560,829 Buy
8 Spectre 1,275,629 $23,811,309 Buy
9 The Martian 1,029,082 $23,491,372 Buy
10 The Revenant 963,776 $17,158,419 Buy


http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2016

1
Zootopia 2,093,668 $41,279,896 Buy
2 Deadpool 1,680,209 $24,439,914 Buy
3 Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 1,664,709 $29,050,424 Buy
4 The Good Dinosaur 1,574,857 $26,020,511 Buy
5 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,214,769 $18,626,263 Buy
6 The Martian 1,114,649 $16,365,207 Buy
7 Hotel Transylvania 2 1,084,702 $16,823,134 Buy
8 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 997,642 $17,045,824 Buy
9 The Revenant 941,640 $14,311,875 Buy
10 The Peanuts Movie 890,318 $11,736,793 Buy

It does look like blu-ray is finally outperforming DVD in new movies.

Yet compared to a top 10 from 2007
http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2007

1 Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End 13,699,490 $279,046,391 Buy
2 Transformers 13,251,378 $251,422,293 Buy
3 Happy Feet 12,225,634 $196,875,349 Buy
4 300 12,110,490 $243,204,618 Buy
5 Ratatouille 11,233,232 $169,016,024 Buy
6 Shrek the Third 10,889,584 $162,691,569 Buy
7 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 9,905,305 $200,157,478 Buy
8 Night at the Museum 8,585,495 $145,161,282 Buy
9 Departed, The 7,458,254 $138,809,474 Buy
10 Spider-Man 3 6,845,349 $114,754,483 Buy

This year isn't complete, yet looking at sales data for 2015 the picture is pretty much the same.
No 4K UHD sales anywhere :/



SvennoJ said:
Teeqoz said:

Convenience and price trumps quality for the vast majority of consumers (up to a certain point anyway). Blu-rays are still more expensive than DVDs, and in western countries don't even get me started on streaming which is superior in those two regards to both.

I was just checking if prices were getting more reasonable yet, guess not.
Star Trek Beyond on Amazon.ca DVD 9.97, Blu-Ray 12.99, Blu-ray 3D 29.99, 4K UHD 34.99 A few older ones are on sale, Hunger games 4K UHD for 19.99 is the best deal, still twice as much as the blu-ray, dvd sells for 5.00. Most are 34.99 though, old or new.

4 formats next to each other is kind of a mess too. No 3D option for 4K yet to complete the set. Most 4K releases don't come with blu-rays either, while most blu-rays still come with DVDs. It doesn't make sense, not helping the transition. I know I'll eventually end up with 4k. It would be sooner if I already had some 4K discs. Yet the high prices and no blu-ray to watch until then is not helping.

Actually the only movie that's on my list with 4K + blu-ray release is Secret life of pets. Not that I want to see that in 4K (My kids want it, which means it will be watched over and over if it's a hit) plus it's not even rendered in 4K (2K digital intermediate). And it's still $32.96 for an upscaled movie without HDR. I'll pass.

Snowden is another movie I want. That one was shot at 6K and was mastered in 4K, yet doesn't get a 4K UHD release. At least it should look great downsampled to blu-ray.

The only effect that 4K UHD has had so far is that Amazon.ca has upped their minimum amount for free shipping to CAD 35, 1 cent more than 4K UHD discs cost.


Some numbers for the OP

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2016

1
Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 5,210,534 $130,996,252 Buy
2 Deadpool 2,944,193 $57,464,397 Buy
3 Zootopia 2,188,278 $46,362,770 Buy
4 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 2,047,408 $48,526,616 Buy
5 Captain America: Civil War 2,010,194 $40,123,472 Buy
6 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,362,275 $26,822,998 Buy
7 The Good Dinosaur 1,288,162 $28,560,829 Buy
8 Spectre 1,275,629 $23,811,309 Buy
9 The Martian 1,029,082 $23,491,372 Buy
10 The Revenant 963,776 $17,158,419 Buy


http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2016

1
Zootopia 2,093,668 $41,279,896 Buy
2 Deadpool 1,680,209 $24,439,914 Buy
3 Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 1,664,709 $29,050,424 Buy
4 The Good Dinosaur 1,574,857 $26,020,511 Buy
5 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,214,769 $18,626,263 Buy
6 The Martian 1,114,649 $16,365,207 Buy
7 Hotel Transylvania 2 1,084,702 $16,823,134 Buy
8 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 997,642 $17,045,824 Buy
9 The Revenant 941,640 $14,311,875 Buy
10 The Peanuts Movie 890,318 $11,736,793 Buy

It does look like blu-ray is finally outperforming DVD in new movies.

Yet compared to a top 10 from 2007
http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2007

1 Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End 13,699,490 $279,046,391 Buy
2 Transformers 13,251,378 $251,422,293 Buy
3 Happy Feet 12,225,634 $196,875,349 Buy
4 300 12,110,490 $243,204,618 Buy
5 Ratatouille 11,233,232 $169,016,024 Buy
6 Shrek the Third 10,889,584 $162,691,569 Buy
7 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 9,905,305 $200,157,478 Buy
8 Night at the Museum 8,585,495 $145,161,282 Buy
9 Departed, The 7,458,254 $138,809,474 Buy
10 Spider-Man 3 6,845,349 $114,754,483 Buy

This year isn't complete, yet looking at sales data for 2015 the picture is pretty much the same.
No 4K UHD sales anywhere :/

Home Video market is really shrinking. I Wonder if monthly subscription streaming and digital sales revenue is making up for what isnt made with physical sales. 

I guess HD, 3D and 4k BD are all packed together . 

 

Edit: its a shame we don't have global figures for DVD/BD adoption. In Brazil movie publishers are stopping tô sell and produce BD tô favor, DVD...



SvennoJ said:
Teeqoz said:

Convenience and price trumps quality for the vast majority of consumers (up to a certain point anyway). Blu-rays are still more expensive than DVDs, and in western countries don't even get me started on streaming which is superior in those two regards to both.

I was just checking if prices were getting more reasonable yet, guess not.
Star Trek Beyond on Amazon.ca DVD 9.97, Blu-Ray 12.99, Blu-ray 3D 29.99, 4K UHD 34.99 A few older ones are on sale, Hunger games 4K UHD for 19.99 is the best deal, still twice as much as the blu-ray, dvd sells for 5.00. Most are 34.99 though, old or new.


Just wait for deals. I got like 6 movies recently all for $20 each. That includes each star trek movie. Purchased Star Trek, Into Darkness, Beyond, Man of Steel, BvS and Watchman. I think they were all like $22 a piece, to be exact. 

But what do you mean most don't come with blu rays. Seems like they all do from what I've seen. They come with movie on 4k disc, blu ray disc, and digital download as well.  Even if I didn't have a 4k player (which as I said, I just got), it is almost worth the extra $5 to just future proof oneself. I could still use the blu ray disc that came with.

Nothing annoys me more than the thought of repurchasing some of my movies I want in 4k, and the 4k coming with the very blu ray disk I already have. I can understand new movies coming out with 4k/blu ray/digital/ect all in one neat package, but always found it dumb when some old movie does that. It's like when LoTR comes out in 4k, I hope they don't waste packaging space tossing in some blu ray versions as well. Everyone already has the movie by now, or if they didn't they coudl buy the blu ray version instead of the 4k if they wanted it and didn't have a 4k player/tv.



pray4mojo said:
invetedlotus123 said:

BD is doing ok, but it never reached and will never reach mainstream status, as mainstream status meaning being the main format of home video in use. DVD is still pretty much alive, and streaming killed Blu-Ray chance of being the main format around.

Sure it has its space among enthusiasts and collectors, but for the average Joe up scaled DVDs were enough back in the day and Streaming is enough nowadays.

What statistics do you have to back up any/all of these claims?

its true, if you google it tons of articles have like pie charts. DVD sales remain dramatically higher than Blu Rays, probably due to being cheaper and people just not noticing the difference on smaller TVs



SvennoJ said:
Teeqoz said:

Convenience and price trumps quality for the vast majority of consumers (up to a certain point anyway). Blu-rays are still more expensive than DVDs, and in western countries don't even get me started on streaming which is superior in those two regards to both.

I was just checking if prices were getting more reasonable yet, guess not.
Star Trek Beyond on Amazon.ca DVD 9.97, Blu-Ray 12.99, Blu-ray 3D 29.99, 4K UHD 34.99 A few older ones are on sale, Hunger games 4K UHD for 19.99 is the best deal, still twice as much as the blu-ray, dvd sells for 5.00. Most are 34.99 though, old or new.

4 formats next to each other is kind of a mess too. No 3D option for 4K yet to complete the set. Most 4K releases don't come with blu-rays either, while most blu-rays still come with DVDs. It doesn't make sense, not helping the transition. I know I'll eventually end up with 4k. It would be sooner if I already had some 4K discs. Yet the high prices and no blu-ray to watch until then is not helping.

Actually the only movie that's on my list with 4K + blu-ray release is Secret life of pets. Not that I want to see that in 4K (My kids want it, which means it will be watched over and over if it's a hit) plus it's not even rendered in 4K (2K digital intermediate). And it's still $32.96 for an upscaled movie without HDR. I'll pass.

Snowden is another movie I want. That one was shot at 6K and was mastered in 4K, yet doesn't get a 4K UHD release. At least it should look great downsampled to blu-ray.

The only effect that 4K UHD has had so far is that Amazon.ca has upped their minimum amount for free shipping to CAD 35, 1 cent more than 4K UHD discs cost.


Some numbers for the OP

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/bluray-sales/2016

1
Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 5,210,534 $130,996,252 Buy
2 Deadpool 2,944,193 $57,464,397 Buy
3 Zootopia 2,188,278 $46,362,770 Buy
4 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 2,047,408 $48,526,616 Buy
5 Captain America: Civil War 2,010,194 $40,123,472 Buy
6 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,362,275 $26,822,998 Buy
7 The Good Dinosaur 1,288,162 $28,560,829 Buy
8 Spectre 1,275,629 $23,811,309 Buy
9 The Martian 1,029,082 $23,491,372 Buy
10 The Revenant 963,776 $17,158,419 Buy


http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2016

1
Zootopia 2,093,668 $41,279,896 Buy
2 Deadpool 1,680,209 $24,439,914 Buy
3 Star Wars Ep. VII: The Force Awakens 1,664,709 $29,050,424 Buy
4 The Good Dinosaur 1,574,857 $26,020,511 Buy
5 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part 2 1,214,769 $18,626,263 Buy
6 The Martian 1,114,649 $16,365,207 Buy
7 Hotel Transylvania 2 1,084,702 $16,823,134 Buy
8 Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 997,642 $17,045,824 Buy
9 The Revenant 941,640 $14,311,875 Buy
10 The Peanuts Movie 890,318 $11,736,793 Buy

It does look like blu-ray is finally outperforming DVD in new movies.

Yet compared to a top 10 from 2007
http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/dvd-sales/2007

1 Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End 13,699,490 $279,046,391 Buy
2 Transformers 13,251,378 $251,422,293 Buy
3 Happy Feet 12,225,634 $196,875,349 Buy
4 300 12,110,490 $243,204,618 Buy
5 Ratatouille 11,233,232 $169,016,024 Buy
6 Shrek the Third 10,889,584 $162,691,569 Buy
7 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 9,905,305 $200,157,478 Buy
8 Night at the Museum 8,585,495 $145,161,282 Buy
9 Departed, The 7,458,254 $138,809,474 Buy
10 Spider-Man 3 6,845,349 $114,754,483 Buy

This year isn't complete, yet looking at sales data for 2015 the picture is pretty much the same.
No 4K UHD sales anywhere :/

on new movies probably, but overall DVD sales are much higher, due to the volume of titles