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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why people hate illegal immigrants and not their employers?

Soundwave said:

America benefits tremendously from immigration because the native population is quite frankly some what stupid. I read a study that even American college graduates fare poorly when compared against comparable people from other countries.

The reason they're able to be competitive in high end in fields like techology and medical is because America poaches a lot of the brightest/best from India, China, and other countries. Those countries quite frankly should be pissed off about that.

Those people are the real economic drivers.

You're just going to keep repeating this nonsense, aren't you?

Of course America does worse than other industrialized countries: They're all 90+% white (or 99% east Asian like Japan and South Korea). College graduates will obviously look worse when colleges elevate students based on their race instead of their ability.

Let's take a look at the National Adult Literacy Survey:

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf

Yep. That's what affirmative action gets you: White college dropouts that are more literate than black postgrads, and are on-par with hispanic postgrads. 25% of the bachelor's-degree-or-higher population is not white. 

When you make fun of Americans for being stupid, you're actually making fun of blacks and hispanics. Oops.



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StarDoor said:
Soundwave said:

America benefits tremendously from immigration because the native population is quite frankly some what stupid. I read a study that even American college graduates fare poorly when compared against comparable people from other countries.

The reason they're able to be competitive in high end in fields like techology and medical is because America poaches a lot of the brightest/best from India, China, and other countries. Those countries quite frankly should be pissed off about that.

Those people are the real economic drivers.

You're just going to keep repeating this nonsense, aren't you?

Of course America does worse than other industrialized countries: They're all 90+% white (or 99% east Asian like Japan and South Korea). College graduates will obviously look worse when colleges elevate students based on their race instead of their ability.

Let's take a look at the National Adult Literacy Survey:

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf

Yep. That's what affirmative action gets you: White college dropouts that are more literate than black postgrads, and are on-par with hispanic postgrads. 25% of the bachelor's-degree-or-higher population is not white. 

When you make fun of Americans for being stupid, you're actually making fun of blacks and hispanics. Oops.

Point remains, America benefits tremendously from poaching the best of the best from India and China. For example the no.1 income earning ethnic group in the US? Indian Americans at an average of over $100,000 earned/year per household. I think Asian Americans are second. 

Personally I think poverty has a dramatic effect on IQ/schooling scores. If you give me even white kids from rich suburbs (where I was raised) and put them head to head scholastically against say poor whites from a trailer park or something, I'd bet the rich kids score higher. More family stability, greater emphasis on doing at least OK in school, better schools/teachers, etc. make a difference. The black and hispanic communities have higher instances of poverty. 



Soundwave said:

Point remains, America benefits tremendously from poaching the best of the best from India and China. For example the no.1 income earning ethnic group in the US? Indian Americans at an average of over $100,000 earned/year per household. I think Asian Americans are second. 

Wait, do you think that's a good thing or not? Earlier you said that India and China should be pissed off because we take their best students.

It's not like we need them, anyways. There's no shortage of high-tech workers:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/11/27/there-is-no-tech-worker-shortage-and-if-there-is-its-the-tech-companies-fault/#4c1863b2539a

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-24/the-tech-worker-shortage-doesnt-really-exist

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100674327

The only reason the H-B1 program exists is for companies to hire low-wage non-Americans.



StarDoor said:
Soundwave said:

Point remains, America benefits tremendously from poaching the best of the best from India and China. For example the no.1 income earning ethnic group in the US? Indian Americans at an average of over $100,000 earned/year per household. I think Asian Americans are second. 

Wait, do you think that's a good thing or not? Earlier you said that India and China should be pissed off because we take their best students.

It's not like we need them, anyways. There's no shortage of high-tech workers:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/11/27/there-is-no-tech-worker-shortage-and-if-there-is-its-the-tech-companies-fault/#4c1863b2539a

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-11-24/the-tech-worker-shortage-doesnt-really-exist

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100674327

The only reason the H-B1 program exists is for companies to hire low-wage non-Americans.

I think it's a good thing to have those people rather than not have them and let India and China become tech powerhouses, well I guess they already are, but moreso. 



pokoko said:
It's kind of funny. I used to work in a community that was absolutely pro-Trump.

Why is that amusing? It was a big farming community. Tobacco, cotton, peanut, and soybean farms all over the place. Who worked in those farms? Yeah, illegal immigrants. They used to come into the store in truckloads. They'd use the sinks to drink without buying anything and they lived jammed together in old houses during farming season.

The tricky bit is finding who to blame, though.

When I was a growing up, farmers would hire teenagers to work in the fields when it was time to harvest. But most teenagers don't work at all now. Heck, most of them would probably outright die if they had to work in tobacco in 95 degree heat. Cropping tobacco is bloody hard work and very few Americans will do it for low pay.

From a Canadian farming community with lots of offshore workers. They come legally, some flee to the city and stay, but its a minor problem here. Most people in our area slightly favored Trump, not by much, but they just assumed Hillary would win do to her political experience.

Many of the same things are grown here, and when my parents were kids, and even when I was a young kid, teenagers and adults would work all summer on farms, and it was normal. It paid about the same as any other job, the difference was that if you and your crew decided to kick it up a notch at certain times of the season, you could be done work by 2pm and have all afternoon to do what you want, and get paid in full regardless. It was worth it.

Well who and what to blame is pretty simple, how the percentage of the problem is broken up is the question. If you look at certain sectors, you find the farmers income has increased well below inflation and cost of living for the last 10-20 years. Some of this is due to GMO and higher yields, some is due to the large open markets that exist, which forces the farmer to sell the crop for whatever the market says its worth at that time, and some of it is do to first world people expecting the highest quality product, for the cheapest price. The fact that the companies that produce/sell chemicals and fertilizers, and process/sell food, can all adjust their price acordingly to their needs, yet many farmers can't, just adds to the problem.

This leads to farmers doing what they can to cut costs in many ways, but one of the first things they did was cut back on wages. That eventually led to farmers now paying minumum wage, and no first world person is going to phyically work their butt off for that kind of money, when they can find work that is less phyically demanding, and less hours, for the same or more money. The next option was to bring people in who would do the work for those low wages, which led to immigrants or offshore workers coming into the Country to do the work. This leads to some of those immigrants staying in the Country, and trying to live the "American Dream". 

The BIG problem is that people have been taught that making money, and not steadily, but exponentially, is a good thing. This is true from a single person/families perspective, but its not a good thing for "the people". Considering most wealthy people don't go pouring that money back into creating more jobs, and instead create less work, for less money, and also leads to higher and higher prices of the luxury goods they buy. The problem is in fact "The American Dream", or what its been turned into today anyway, by the celebrities and billionaires.



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Soundwave said:

America benefits tremendously from immigration because the native population is quite frankly some what stupid. I read a study that even American college graduates fare poorly when compared against comparable people from other countries.

The reason they're able to be competitive in high end in fields like techology and medical is because America poaches a lot of the brightest/best from India, China, and other countries. Those countries quite frankly should be pissed off about that.

Those people are the real economic drivers.

How long will this trend continue? India and China are developing at a rapid pace and eventually, if not already, many of these highly educated workers will stay or return to their home countries because: there are good jobs, they have family and they know the language, culture is familiar, etc.

Personally I think skilled immigration is a net gain, but it should not be taken for granted. America will be in for a very rude awakening when these skilled workers decide to stay home, it's not the 1990s anymore. 



People hate illegal immigrants for two reasons. For starters, they're either too naive to think of the bigger picture or don't care. Mexican people in particular, at least the majority of them that come into the US, are filthy poor. Most of them are decent people who just want a better life for themselves and their family. They live in third world conditions and don't have the education or the financial means to come here via paperwork so they do what every single human being in their situation would do... sneak in. Then, after doing so, they go get a real job in a chicken procession plant or field etc. and earn money. They don't break the law, they don't cause problems. They just work and pay taxes and raise families. They're good people.

The second reason people hate illegal immigrants is because they're racist and fear "their" America is disappearing before their eyes. They see a brownening of the US and get scared. These people overwhelmingly voted for Trump. They're fearful, scared, ignorant and racist people. There's no opening their eyes... there's no helping them. If you run across one of these people, do what I do, walk away quickly.



pray4mojo said:

People hate illegal immigrants for two reasons. For starters, they're either too naive to think of the bigger picture or don't care. Mexican people in particular, at least the majority of them that come into the US, are filthy poor. Most of them are decent people who just want a better life for themselves and their family. They live in third world conditions and don't have the education or the financial means to come here via paperwork so they do what every single human being in their situation would do... sneak in. Then, after doing so, they go get a real job in a chicken procession plant or field etc. and earn money. They don't break the law, they don't cause problems. They just work and pay taxes and raise families. They're good people.

The second reason people hate illegal immigrants is because they're racist and fear "their" America is disappearing before their eyes. They see a brownening of the US and get scared. These people overwhelmingly voted for Trump. They're fearful, scared, ignorant and racist people. There's no opening their eyes... there's no helping them. If you run across one of these people, do what I do, walk away quickly.

So now it's racist to not want to be replaced in a country built by and for one's own people? If you cheer the browning of America, how would you feel about other analogous situations? Imagine millions of white people immigrating to Africa, eventually becoming a large enough demographic to shift the political landscape and vote for even more white immigrants and eventually become a majority in formerly black countries. What would that be called? Oh, right, colonialism.

Also, the immigrants to which you refer are a net drain on the economy and government funding, espeically considering how they don't pay federal income taxes.



StarDoor said:
pray4mojo said:

People hate illegal immigrants for two reasons. For starters, they're either too naive to think of the bigger picture or don't care. Mexican people in particular, at least the majority of them that come into the US, are filthy poor. Most of them are decent people who just want a better life for themselves and their family. They live in third world conditions and don't have the education or the financial means to come here via paperwork so they do what every single human being in their situation would do... sneak in. Then, after doing so, they go get a real job in a chicken procession plant or field etc. and earn money. They don't break the law, they don't cause problems. They just work and pay taxes and raise families. They're good people.

The second reason people hate illegal immigrants is because they're racist and fear "their" America is disappearing before their eyes. They see a brownening of the US and get scared. These people overwhelmingly voted for Trump. They're fearful, scared, ignorant and racist people. There's no opening their eyes... there's no helping them. If you run across one of these people, do what I do, walk away quickly.

So now it's racist to not want to be replaced in a country built by and for one's own people? If you cheer the browning of America, how would you feel about other analogous situations? Imagine millions of white people immigrating to Africa, eventually becoming a large enough demographic to shift the political landscape and vote for even more white immigrants and eventually become a majority in formerly black countries. What would that be called? Oh, right, colonialism.

Also, the immigrants to which you refer are a net drain on the economy and government funding, espeically considering how they don't pay federal income taxes.

Actually, most of them DO pay taxes... even the illegals. 

But I don't give a shit about boarders. I believe in human beings and their right to peace and happiness. It's my job on this earth to take care of those less fortunate than me and to think about others first. Let them come here and get jobs and prosper if they want. 

The human race needs to learn some fucking compassion.



Out of all countries, the USA has fear of immigrants. That's so brutally funny, you can't make that up. The whole country was made by invading a foreign continent. But instead of working and minding their own business, europeans back then decided it's a good idea to kill just about any native they walk on by and take a huge shit all over the environment.

The whole country is built by immigrants. Just don't forget that. It may seem like it's been forever, but it wasn't even 300 years ago. That's nothing in the scale of human history.

Then again, people never learn from history. They try so hard again and again, but history just keeps repeating itself. But just go ahead, make America great again, fight for nationalism and be proud. But don't act surprised when China takes that spot of the global superpower. There's no stopping Globalization. You can pull out of it and put your heads in the sand, but the world will keep turning and not even care. That's all I have to say. And thank god I'm not an American.



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