Again based on what? Your conjecture?

Because it's overprice and has a lot of issues.

The pro isnt over priced, its a very good price for what it is, all it needs is better support, which I think as games that have pro built in rather than patched quiclkly later will prove its a good peice of kit. Seeing Infamous and BF1 on it the other day, I can say its great.

Would love to know what these issues are that you speak of. As I've not come across any yet.

The upgrade isn't that huge in terms of graphics, it has no 4k blu ray, it runs quite a bit of games worse than base ps4, it looks ugly and cost 100 dollars more than the base ps4. 

So you've played all of the Pro games right? I'm guessing you havent got a pro and have not played any. I have and I can say the performance on and looks of the games, I am really pleased with.

One or two games run a bit worse, but sure that will be fixed in a patch, considering its able to run many games in such high resolutions. I'm sure its easy to cherry pick if you have an agenda. Look at the picture as a whole and you'll find for the price, its doing a very good job indeed. As I said if you understand development, things will quickly improve, just some patches were probably rushed out as always at the start of dev of a new console that requires changes.

Ugly, what uglier than the original XBO, nah, I acutally like the look, its form factor is not too bad either. I guess that is subjective.

You are saying that its 100 dollars more than the base PS4, but its actually x2+ more powerful, i think you'll find thats a good deal.Thats not subjective but objective based on power to price performance. What you should ask is why would people who have the money buy a console that is less powerful for $100 dollars less, now that seems like a bad idea. Even worse if you consider that the XBO is less powerful than the PS4. So I see no reason to buy either slims when the Pro is a better deal... of course unless you are only wanting to get a 4k BR..... lets get on to that...

As for 4K Blu Ray, yeah very subjective, lets firstly remember its a gaming console. Lets not try to push the TV TV TV agenda at this point. We all know how that went for MS, but now its super important. I think people are getting sick and tired of rebuying hard media, I purchased on DVD, then I moved to Blu ray, I like probably many people do not want the expense of moving up again, and especially not at the price the movie industry is asking for 4K movies. With downloads becoming more and more prevalent it makes sense to consider this isnt the time to move to yet another movie format, I was disappointed about no 4K drive, not because I wanted it (as i dont) because i know some people would complain it was super important to a gaming console (guess what its not). I am ok to play games on disk, but thats it for me on movies, they take up too much space and have reduced value with netflix and amazon these days.

So yeah I can say i'm not convinced by your arguments.

So you've played all of the Pro games right? I'm guessing you havent got a pro and have not played any. I have and I can say the performance on and looks of the games, I am really pleased with.

One or two games run a bit worse, but sure that will be fixed in a patch, considering its able to run many games in such high resolutions. I'm sure its easy to cherry pick if you have an agenda. Look at the picture as a whole and you'll find for the price, its doing a very good job indeed. As I said if you understand development, things will quickly improve, just some patches were probably rushed out as always at the start of dev of a new console that requires changes.

Ugly, what uglier than the original XBO, nah, I acutally like the look, its form factor is not too bad either. I guess that is subjective.

You are saying that its 100 dollars more than the base PS4, but its actually x2+ more powerful, i think you'll find thats a good deal.Thats not subjective but objective based on power to price performance. What you should ask is why would people who have the money buy a console that is less powerful for $100 dollars less, now that seems like a bad idea. Even worse if you consider that the XBO is less powerful than the PS4. So I see no reason to buy either slims when the Pro is a better deal... of course unless you are only wanting to get a 4k BR..... lets get on to that...

As for 4K Blu Ray, yeah very subjective, lets firstly remember its a gaming console. Lets not try to push the TV TV TV agenda at this point. We all know how that went for MS, but now its super important. I think people are getting sick and tired of rebuying hard media, I purchased on DVD, then I moved to Blu ray, I like probably many people do not want the expense of moving up again, and especially not at the price the movie industry is asking for 4K movies. With downloads becoming more and more prevalent it makes sense to consider this isnt the time to move to yet another movie format, I was disappointed about no 4K drive, not because I wanted it (as i dont) because i know some people would complain it was super important to a gaming console (guess what its not). I am ok to play games on disk, but thats it for me on movies, they take up too much space and have reduced value with netflix and amazon these days.

So yeah I can say i'm not convinced by your arguments.

Holy crap dude, you wrote an essay.

1. I looked at youtube videos as well as some analysis. The graphics don't look that much improved to me and it is known that some of the games have performance issues.

2. The xbox one slim is praised by a lot of people because of the looks.

3. Only the GPU is 2x powerful. Everything else is minimal upgrade. Also, if I am buying a premium product, it better not only look better but perform better too.'

4. If you're going to advertise the ps4 pro as a 4k machine.... it better do 4k. 

5. Its better to wait for the scorpio that is coming out next year. It will be an actual note worthy upgrade instead of a half ass one.

Look we should take this to the opinions on ps pro thread rather than here....

1. But seriously you looked at youtube, haha, yeah thats not really going to cut it in some instances.

2. Xbox one slim, certainly looks better than the XBO but you know that the PS Pro is smaller than the Slim right, and is much more powerful than it. Thats great engineering, regardless of the look (subjective) its a much better device in a smaller package.

3. It's a £349 device, I'm not sure what you are expecting, but at that price it is priced fairly.

4. You know it can do 4k right, whether its checkboard upscaling or those games that are native 4k (which there are some), it does 4k, I know some people still want to convince themselves it doesnt do 4k, but it does. The funny thing is the box is punching above its weight. Dont expect the scoprio to look that much better in terms of clarity, maybe a bit cleaner, and thats going to cost.

5. If by the time that machine which is still a year out comes out and its priced at £349, then we'll see, if they try and pass it off as £499 and the pro has had a price cut by then, forget it, checkboarding and the other techniques will have already done its job, and by the time Scorpio comes out, Pro will have lots of games running at 4k, while that will have its teething problems.

No offence but you cannot sell a system that currently doesnt exist to buy, we dont know the price and many of its games will be available on PC (and imho the Sony library of games suits me better).  So its all well and good, but I know the 1st party games I want next year, and they are all from Sony... the libraries are

just not comparable.

You may not agree, but I buy a console based on performance, cost, games and engineering design, and though Sony may not have performance next year when scorpio comes out, the other things still push it ahead for me beause i am pretty sure sony will be ahead in the other areas as they have been for last 4-5 years.