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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS4 Pro: Is It A 8.4tf Beast? (NX Gamer)

walsufnir said:
HollyGamer said:

yes because direct x12 was made only for xbox one???  NOPE!

Eh... And?

????????????



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From what i understand this borders on to being hypothetical in a practical sense. if a game could work with 100% 16-bit floating point ops then it would essentially be 8.4Tflops, since that is what the GPU is capable off when using 16-bit floats, that's a fact.
What is also a fact tho is that games can't use 16-bit floats all the time, but what is possible is that a developer can optimize and mark variables/operations that are okay in 16-bit which will make the game perform better.
Also, I have to admit that currently it's not clear to me if this is something Sony specific for the Pro or AMD specific. AMD supports 16-bit floats in their Polaris/Vega GPUs, if this simultaneously executing 2 16-bit operations is also part of that then yes, even the Scorpio could have this, if Polaris/Vega don't support it in this way and if it's Sony specific then of course it won't be included in the Scorpio for sure. Only If MS comes up with some form other way of doing it.

And the reason its useless, coz of Sony's guideline to developers. Base PS4, xbox one will hold back many games from utilizing their true Teraflops



HollyGamer said:
walsufnir said:

Eh... And?

????????????

Are you trying to say that, because DX12 is not only made for Xbox, it can't be close to the metal?



walsufnir said:
HollyGamer said:

????????????

Are you trying to say that, because DX12 is not only made for Xbox, it can't be close to the metal

What i am trying say all games that comes for Xbox will use directx12 and u know that direct x12 lack of optimization close to metal.  and that will be imposible to achive optimization because direct X12 is intended not for one machine (PC and other thing use as well) 



HollyGamer said:
walsufnir said:

Are you trying to say that, because DX12 is not only made for Xbox, it can't be close to the metal

What i am trying say all games that comes for Xbox will use directx12 and u know that direct x12 lack of optimization close to metal.  and that will be imposible to achive optimization because direct X12 is intended not for one machine (PC and other thing use as well) 

No, DX12 does not "lack of optimization close to the metal". Where did you get this nonsense?



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Azzanation said:
No, its just spin to help sell the Pro to those waiting for Scorpio. TF is not the be all and end all for graphics. If Scorpio can halve its floats than they can claim 12 TF or even better drop it to 8bit floats and claim 18 TF. Its the new buzz word for nothing. Especially since they have to sacrifice something to gain something. If it was a native 8.4 TF than ill be impressed. Even 6TF that the Scorpio offers isn't impressive to me.

No one's "waiting" for Scorpio, they're just buying PCs.



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walsufnir said:
HollyGamer said:

What i am trying say all games that comes for Xbox will use directx12 and u know that direct x12 lack of optimization close to metal.  and that will be imposible to achive optimization because direct X12 is intended not for one machine (PC and other thing use as well) 

No, DX12 does not "lack of optimization close to the metal". Where did you get this nonsense?

So then why console exist on the first place, if my PC can be optimize using direct x12 ??? 



HollyGamer said:
walsufnir said:

No, DX12 does not "lack of optimization close to the metal". Where did you get this nonsense?

So then why console exist on the first place, if my PC can be optimize using direct x12 ??? 

Well, first of all, Xboxes always had a *variant* of DX - it always was in large compatible but in crucial parts gave more power to the devs while not breaking the usual and well-known development environment.

Second, think for a bit: If it was true that you can't optimize on Xbox, what does that tell you about untapped power on the 360? The system would've been even more powerful than it ever was, only crippled by an API and still managed to outdo the PS3 on numerous games. Do you actually believe that?

PC optimization is a different thing of course but DX12 gives developers way more control than they ever had before, just like Vulkan now also does. Do you think that MS and the OpenGL group invent new APIs just for marketing reasons?

And the question why console if PC can also optimize: Do you think the only reason why consoles exist is because PC games are not optimized because of their "not to metal"-APIs?



walsufnir said:
HollyGamer said:

So then why console exist on the first place, if my PC can be optimize using direct x12 ??? 

Well, first of all, Xboxes always had a *variant* of DX - it always was in large compatible but in crucial parts gave more power to the devs while not breaking the usual and well-known development environment.

Second, think for a bit: If it was true that you can't optimize on Xbox, what does that tell you about untapped power on the 360? The system would've been even more powerful than it ever was, only crippled by an API and still managed to outdo the PS3 on numerous games. Do you actually believe that?

PC optimization is a different thing of course but DX12 gives developers way more control than they ever had before, just like Vulkan now also does. Do you think that MS and the OpenGL group invent new APIs just for marketing reasons?

And the question why console if PC can also optimize: Do you think the only reason why consoles exist is because PC games are not optimized because of their "not to metal"-APIs?

1st its true they had many variant "if they have to develope games entire new and exclusives "

2nd it's true they Xbox 360 can be optimize but it's not close to the metal and it's shows on why PS3 games on last gen showes it better on exclusives and better on their second update (few years before ps4 release) 

3rd MS invest direct x12 because windows use direct x12 and vulcan as well (futyre windows will use this ) 

4rth The reason Console exist ofcourse not just for the optimization but because of exclusive but for now Xbox games exclusive coming to PC so it beat it's purpose 



HollyGamer said:
walsufnir said:

Well, first of all, Xboxes always had a *variant* of DX - it always was in large compatible but in crucial parts gave more power to the devs while not breaking the usual and well-known development environment.

Second, think for a bit: If it was true that you can't optimize on Xbox, what does that tell you about untapped power on the 360? The system would've been even more powerful than it ever was, only crippled by an API and still managed to outdo the PS3 on numerous games. Do you actually believe that?

PC optimization is a different thing of course but DX12 gives developers way more control than they ever had before, just like Vulkan now also does. Do you think that MS and the OpenGL group invent new APIs just for marketing reasons?

And the question why console if PC can also optimize: Do you think the only reason why consoles exist is because PC games are not optimized because of their "not to metal"-APIs?

1st its true they had many variant "if they have to develope games entire new and exclusives "

2nd it's true they Xbox 360 can be optimize but it's not close to the metal and it's shows on why PS3 games on last gen showes it better on exclusives and better on their second update (few years before ps4 release) 

3rd MS invest direct x12 because windows use direct x12 and vulcan as well (futyre windows will use this ) 

4rth The reason Console exist ofcourse not just for the optimization but because of exclusive but for now Xbox games exclusive coming to PC so it beat it's purpose 

So in the end the 360 was a more powerful machine, only crippled by DirectX. You learn something new every day...

And no, people choosing a console over a PC has way more to do than just exclusives. This is also contradicted by the fact that exclusives get outsold by 3rd party games by big numbers when we leave Nintendo out. Ease of use, for example, is another big argument.