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Forums - General Discussion - World Atheism will never happen. Why you can not kill God.

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Will worldwide atheism ever happen?

No, faith is part of being human. 79 49.07%
 
Yes, soon enough all men will be atheists. 82 50.93%
 
Total:161
Fei-Hung said:
Hiku said:

You can't kill Zeus, Poseidon, or Athena, either. But here we are.

You can if you are Kratos.

Or Xena. Don't forget the warrior princess!



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The most atheistic countries, those in Eastern Asia, are not particularly leaders in science. It's primarily due to militant tyrants attempting to develop a monoculture. As those tyrannies erode, religious adoption increases. A good example is in China, where religion has seen substantial growth, especially theistic religions: Catholicism is growing at a rate of about 7% per year; and has gone from 3 million during the reign of Mao, to over 50 million today.

In addition, atheism is not necessarily the conclusion of scientific discovery, since science functions in the realm of observable phenomena. Spiritualism and sacredism exist in the realm of metaphysics and the abstract, which are outside of the realm of observable phenomena. These are the backbone of theism. This is how the greatest minds, such as Newton, could be relatively extreme as both scientific and religious explorers. Even Einstein in more recent times, while agnostic, rationalized a cosmic entity like a God on the same principles as more current formalizations on the teleological argument.

Lastly, the cultural element of religions will always have its appeal to anyone who is not an anti-culturalist. And it's unlikely that the world will become a bunch of pretentious little Nietzsches.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Some great responses in this thread that really shows the real enemy of religion is a well rounded education and intelligence plus the thirst for the truth however unappealing. I've seen people change from religious to agnostic and agnostic to atheist as their knowledge and understanding expands on science, history, biology etc. It's a great weapon at least against the ridiculous teachings of the old primitive religions.



Jumpin said:
The most atheistic countries, those in Eastern Asia, are not particularly leaders in science. It's primarily due to militant tyrants attempting to develop a monoculture. As those tyrannies erode, religious adoption increases. A good example is in China, where religion has seen substantial growth, especially theistic religions: Catholicism is growing at a rate of about 7% per year; and has gone from 3 million during the reign of Mao, to over 50 million today.

In addition, atheism is not necessarily the conclusion of scientific discovery, since science functions in the realm of observable phenomena. Spiritualism and sacredism exist in the realm of metaphysics and the abstract, which are outside of the realm of observable phenomena. These are the backbone of theism. This is how the greatest minds, such as Newton, could be relatively extreme as both scientific and religious explorers. Even Einstein in more recent times, while agnostic, rationalized a cosmic entity like a God on the same principles as more current formalizations on the teleological argument.

Lastly, the cultural element of religions will always have its appeal to anyone who is not an anti-culturalist. And it's unlikely that the world will become a bunch of pretentious little Nietzsches.

 

Where do you get the numbers of 50 million and 7 % growth from ? 



You can't kill that which does not exist....



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Squall_Leonhart said:
You can't kill that which does not exist....

...kill in a metaphorical sense.



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William L. Rowe: human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist.

I can't answer your question OP. This is what I like about Agnosticism.



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I've been told there are a lot of intelligent people throughout history who have believed in God that is true while you Ponder the significance of that I would like you to consider Ben and he's a very intelligent guy he heard a pretty ridiculous claim from an anonymous source he immediately didn't believe it and when about his day without giving it further thought later Ben heard a friendly acquaintance make the ridiculous claim despite the claims ridiculousness Ben trusted the source so he actually believed it yet because the ridiculous claim is not actually true you might think it won't be too difficult to convince Ben that he shouldn't believe it and at this point indeed it might not be too difficult to convince him of the truth for Ben is an intelligent guy now let's change the circumstances now let's say Ben was raised from birth to believe the ridiculous claim if that's the case it will be much more difficult to convince Ben the claim is not true after all it was taught to him and consistently reinforced throughout his life by his parents the very people that nature has set him up to trust the most regardless of their knowledge or lack thereof of the actual truth let's change the circumstances again let's not only say Ben was raised to believe ridiculous claim but that the community of people who live around Ben and his family we're also raised believing the same ridiculous claim at this point there's belief will be reinforced by many other people besides his blood relatives including probably his spouse his belief will be considered the norm and anything that contradicts it will seem alien and wrong now it will be very difficult to convince Ben the ridiculous claim is false let's change of circumstances yet again by simply adding many years to the effect lets say that ridiculous claim has persisted throughout many Generations Ben's Community is simply the most recent Community to be raised with this belief and the ridiculous claim throughout the year has caused beloved traditions to develop Traditions that provide happiness stability familiarity and comfort those traditions gave rise to institutions the ridiculous claim has rolled down a mountain like an avalanche gaining momentum and now there are holidays that celebrate it's different aspects entire buildings constructed to facilitate the rituals developed from the ridiculous claim complete with specialized vocations hierarchies uniforms schools and inspiring works of art through every medium naturally intense tribalism develops bonding people who believe the ridiculous Claim thereby affecting political policy from the least powerful forces of government to the most powerful this intense tribalism also causes the ostracization of anyone who does not believe the ridiculous claim even amongst friends and family historically and even in some regions to this day disbelievers can be tortured and killed at this point Not only would the ridiculous claim seem obviously true but the truth itself would seem obviously ridiculous convincing Ben at this point becomes an exercise in futility as anyone who come bearing the truth would not only seem ridiculous butt strange devious and even evil let's change the circumstances a final time let's say the ridiculous claim bears with it a caveat that believing it results in the ultimate reward while disbelieving it results in the ultimate punishment now not only does Ben have a tremendous incentive to believe that which has already been relentlessly installed in him to believe since birth but also has an incentive to spread the ridiculous claim to those who are unaware or convince those who disbelieve so that they too can be saved in this way using Ben's goodness the ridiculous claims reproduces causing people to think not only should they believe it but that they need to believe it add this to the all the previous circumstances and it would be simply amazing if Ben could ever see the ridiculous claim for the falsehood that it is despite the fact that he is an intelligent guy the funny thing about the truth is it will remain the truth even if you weren't raised to believe it the truth requires no indoctrination communities Traditions institutions government apologetics stigmatization tribalism incentives or punishments yet without these things the ridiculous claim would Adderley disappear never to resurface the truth however will remain true and available to be discovered even if no one spreads it by the edge of a sword or by the point of a gun or by the explosion of a bomb or by a parent to their child at some point maybe just maybe one day Ben will ask why the a ridiculous claim needs so many dirty tricks to be believed



deskpro2k3 said:
William L. Rowe: human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist.

I can't answer your question OP. This is what I like about Agnosticism.

If you quote William L. Rowe than quote him correctly in the context he was saying it:

 

In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist. In so far as one holds that our beliefs are rational only if they are sufficiently supported by human reason, the person who accepts the philosophical position of agnosticism will hold that neither the belief that God exists nor the belief that God does not exist is rational. In the modern period, agnostics have appealed largely to the philosophies of Hume and Kant as providing the justification for agnosticism as a philosophical position.

 

Edit: Atheism is a disbelief and not a believe.

So, atheists don't believe in a god or gods rather than they do believe that God doesn't exist.



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Actually I agree with you. but probably not for the reasons you think.

WagnerPaiva said:

So, I think World Atheism will never happen. Why you can not kill God?

And existing or not have nothing to do with it, lots of non existent concepts have being killed through the ages, so the "you can not kill something that is not real" do not work.

Faith is by evolution wired into our brains. We belief in stuff, may it that the sun will shine tomorrow, that a car is faster than a bicycle or that a god created all that is. If a belief is true or not does not matter for it being a belief.

Richard Dawkins describes that in detail in his book 'The God Delusion'. He explains how believing stuff is hardwired into our brains and how that leads to the forming of religions.

 

WagnerPaiva said:

Militant atheism is also a form of brain washing, just like organized religion, it is a "us vs. them" paradigm that benefits no one but those that hold or aspire to power.

I tend to say, that there are two forms of atheism: The faith that there is no god or the complete absence of faith. Or to put it differently: You might belief that there is no god or you might just not belief in god.

 

WagnerPaiva said:

People like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens taught us nothing but to hate people that believe in God, Jesus Christ or the supernatural in general.

Well, that is just not true. Actually they do not dislike believers, they dislike though the hindrance on progress the religion may bring with it. So they do not hate the believers at all. And for saying they hate the religion, it is like saying you hate a volcano, as you actually only warn about the consequences of a volcanic eruption.

 

So I agree, complete atheism will never happen as faith is part of us, just as we were developing in evolution. That doesn't mean religion has the truth or anything, just that it will not go away (or will be replaced with the next belief). Also: most people don't belief in Santa Clause, but the rituals around christmas still hold up.



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