By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - A vote for Trump is indefensible

SuaveSocialist said:

So you are thinking about voting for Trump.  You just might be undecided.  Maybe you’ve already decided.  Perhaps during the Primaries you already have.

Well, there is only one way to say this (bluntly): there’s just no excuse.  A vote for Trump is simply indefensible.  It just cannot be done—not when you have all the facts, or approach the situation rationally, or judge Trump by whatever standards you judge the other candidate(s)--and I’ve brought proof.

Now, there may be some of you who feel triggered by this.  Reality often exists outside Safe Zones.  You may need a stiff drink to wash away the pain, so take a moment to pour yourself one if you like.  Put on some soothing music.  Sit down.  Take a deep breath.  The truth won’t kill you, but sometimes it hurts really, really, really bad.

The following link is a Master Post that chronicles Trump’s ever-growing list of reasons why he should not be allowed near anything or anyone—let alone a position of power or authority.  It is a lengthy read, crammed with sources cited through links and has many, many categories.  It ranges from warning signs of Fascist leanings, his history of racism, sexism, crime and a whole lot more.  Take your time.  You may need another glass.  Or even the entire bottle because it will take a while. http://quantum-displacement.tumblr.com/post/146015554444/anti-trump-masterpost 

So you made it through the list.  Congratulations, the hard part is over.  But my case has not yet been rested.  You may try to say that Trump at the very least “tells it like it is”.  Well...brace for impact.  Somehow you managed to convince yourself that he “tells it like it is” despite having read his documented history of Hypocrisy and Lies, but he’s also a serial flip-flopper who has waffled and contradicted himself on whatever positions or policies you actually approve of.  http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

In addition, as a politician he actually has the worst record of honesty and accuracy in his claims.  Lyin’ Ted has a better record from non-partisan fact-checking: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/  Don’t believe me?  Here’s Ted’s: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/  Even Hillary Clinton, with her hard-earned and well-deserved reputation for being untrustworthy is basically Honest Abe in comparison http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/.

Brutal
.

But Trump’s troubles aren’t even over.  He’s now a contender for the 2016 Bill Cosby Award---and the other nominee (Roger Ailes http://www.thewrap.com/roger-ailes-sexual-harassment-allegations-from-over-20-women-pour-in-gretchen-carlsons-lawyers-say/ ) is Trump’s campaign advisor!  This December, Trump will face a courtroom battle against a 13 year-old girl he may have raped https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit, more women keep coming forward with sexual assault allegations http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/new-allegations-of-sexual-assault-emerge-against-trump-1.3112215 and his situation keeps getting uglier  https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/10/13/former-toronto-star-journalist-accuses-donald-trump-of-sexual-assault.html .

It’s gotten so bad that the GOP is abandoning their Presidential Nominee. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/republicans-list-trump-disavowal-groping-tape%20.  25% of his own Party won’t endorse him.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/10/11/elected-republicans-not-supporting-donald-trump-president-congress-governors/91913668/ and Trump’s perilous dive in the polls suggest that the People are turning their backs as well http://time.com/4527825/poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-post-debate/ .  All Trump is doing is damaging the Republican Party and tainting Conservative values.

If you are a fiscal conservative, surely you recognize Trumponomics to doom the US to bankruptcy. (read: Economy in the Master Post)

If you are a Constitutionalist, surely you recognize that tossing out entire Amendments and shredding the Bill of Rights is a sorry way of protecting America’s founding principles. (read: Fascism in the Master Post)

if you are a Christian, surely you recognize that Trump’s history and behavior is about as un-Christian as demonstrably possible: http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2016/03/is_voting_for_donald_trump_un-.html

If you are a man or woman of Science, surely you recognize his scientific positions (such as Climate Change being a hoax invented by the Chinese) as farce, as equally opposed to scientific consensus as he is opposed to the tenets of faith.

If you are someone who is tough on crime, surely you expect Trump to be locked up for all of his—starting with that trial in December. (read: Crime in the Master Post)

If you are someone who is tough on terror, surely you do not want your President to be the strawman responsible for a surge in ISIS recruitment (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/20/hillary-clinton/donald-trump-now-being-used-terrorist-propaganda-v/)  .

As an American, surely you see now that there is no excuse.  You have three alternatives who are each much, much better choices—even if those choices aren't always good themselves.  But voting the greater of four evils is nonsensical.  If you voted for Trump in Primaries, you had up to a dozen better options, but you did not know then what you know now.  Whatever minutiae had convinced you to entertain even the possibility of casting a ballot for Trump is objectively overshadowed by mountains of documented reasons to cast one for somebody else.  Even if you cannot bring yourself to vote for one of the alternatives, or even two, there is still a third.  Trump is up against Hillary Clinton, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson--there's more to the race than two people. 

Now you know it as I know it.  It may hurt.  You may experience grief, and the first stage of grief is denial.  You may try to put on a tinfoil hat and/or conjure up some rationalization out of an irrational aether to justify voting for him, but it won't work.  It'll rely too heavily on False Equivalence Fallcies, Strawmen, Red Herrings and attempts to Move the Goalposts.  A vote for Trump is indefensible. 

Trump is like pissing in the toilet your bound to hit a piece of shit.



Around the Network

Funny enough some of the Bushs have endorsed Clinton which shows that Neocons and Neolibs are just a happy united party. Even the green/socialist lady prefers Trump over Clinton now:

"If Donald Trump is President, I'm not going to sleep well at night. If Hillary Clinton is President, I may not wake up at all." - Jill Stein
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/12/jill_stein_hillary_clintons_declared_syria_policy_could_start_a_nuclear_war.html



Important, only use primary sources (what they actually say directly from their own mouth, unedited, uncropped, full context). You are unfortunately using sources that are that heavily edited, biased and hence worthless.

Primary sources or bust.



numberwang said:

Important, only use primary sources (what they actually say directly from their own mouth, unedited, uncropped, full context). You are unfortunately using sources that are that heavily edited, biased and hence worthless.

Primary sources or bust.

The goal posts are staying where they are.  Trying to move them won't do you any good.



You could say the same thing about Hillary.



I bet the Wii U would sell more than 15M LTD by the end of 2015. He bet it would sell less. I lost.

Around the Network
LivingMetal said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Can you expand on that? Can you list Clinton's "corruptions"? Why do those corruptions prompt you to distrust Clinton? And why do you trust Trump to deliver where Clinton cannot? Also, what specific policy propositions of Trump's do you endorse?

Why should I?  You're already made up your mind.  You're not here to find answers.  No matter what I say you'll find a reason to disagree.  And I'm find with that in and of itself.  It's just that I and the rest of the country don't need the political self-righteous intolerance that thinks their party can do no wrong while the other is scum.  Remember, it was you who said:

"It's defensible if you're a cultural conservative or a single-issue voter (read: abortion), or a white nationalist or isolationist."

The above statement is shortsightedness at best, self-righteously closed-minded intolerance at worst.  Pick one.  Come back when you're more enlightened.

I'm back! And I'm more enlightened now.

Can you answer my questions now please? If you feel strongly about voting for Trump - if you're proud of that decision - surely you can defend it? If I'm close-minded, as you insist, isn't that the only way to open my mind? To expose me to a different point of view?

I'm giving you the floor. Speak your mind.



That moment when a vote for DeezNUTZ is more defensible than a vote for either the Republican nominee or the Democratic nominee. Can't Barrack Obama stay president for four more years. Hell I would love to see Michelle take the office, a white woman leader is nothing to brag about in the Western world. A black woman on the other hand would be a first ever. Anyway not voting or voting for a candidate that isn't Hillary or Trump is best defendable.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Someone's going to vote for Trump because of the OP.



Lube Me Up

ohmylanta1003 said:
You could say the same thing about Hillary.

Almost.  With Trump objectively worse by a substantial margin, a vote for Hillary has strategic value even though she's a lousy candidate herself.  A vote for Trump (the worst Presidential candidate out of the current four and probably the worst Presidential candidate in American history) cannot even claim this--with three better options to cast a ballot, one for Trump is indefensible. 



SuaveSocialist said:
ohmylanta1003 said:
You could say the same thing about Hillary.

Almost.  With Trump objectively worse by a substantial margin, a vote for Hillary has strategic value even though she's a lousy candidate herself.  A vote for Trump (the worst Presidential candidate out of the current four and probably the worst Presidential candidate in American history) cannot even claim this--with three better options to cast a ballot, one for Trump is indefensible. 

I would say Hillary is worse. Straight up. I'm not saying I'm voting for Trump, but Hillary is a fucking crook, backstabber, liar, manipulator, etc.. She only cares about herself, as shown by all the recent email leaks and as shown in the past.



I bet the Wii U would sell more than 15M LTD by the end of 2015. He bet it would sell less. I lost.