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Locked: A vote for Trump is indefensible

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Veknoid_Outcast said:
LivingMetal said:

Politcially, Trump is the King of Jerks.  Clinton is the Queen of Career Political Corruption.  I call Trump the less of two very evils.  It's that simple.  People should have the grace to agree to disagree and more on.

Can you expand on that? Can you list Clinton's "corruptions"? Why do those corruptions prompt you to distrust Clinton? And why do you trust Trump to deliver where Clinton cannot? Also, what specific policy propositions of Trump's do you endorse?

Are you serious?!?! Go to YouTube and watch Clintons cash it's a little over an hour to watch but you'll learn alot. You don't make that kind of money in public office. If this was a crime mob in Brooklyn the FBI would be all over this. There are way too many examples off her being paid off by bill doing a speech for hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you watch it and still don't understand than your hopelessly blind! And we're still getting damning emails ever day.... but let's just blame Russia. : 0



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Oh hey, someone who doesn't live in America telling Americans how to vote.



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WagnerPaiva said:
That is the beauty of democracy: people do not have to defend their votes. They will go vote in the candidate they want in power and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent them.
If anything, I encourage everyone that say that they will vote for Hillary to keep saying it and then vote for Trump anyways.
The beauty of democracy is that loud minorities do not matter, only majority consensus.

That’s called tyranny of the masses. The quality of a country’s democracy is directly proportional to the education of the populace.

I live in a 3rd world country and “the masses” tend to be woefully ignorant and vote for presidents based on popularity, rhetoric, and tribal or religious affiliations. The whole country then gets dragged down the shitter because of people voting for incompetent fools who make their situation even worse . The quality of education drops even further and lo and behold even more idiots vote for the same clowns next time around. Rinse and repeat.

Seeing something like this go down in a first world country, and America no less, is shocking to me on so many levels.

This is some banana republic level shit right here.

I thought you guys value facts and policy over rhetoric. I thought you'd know better than to let emotions (hate/fear/superstition) get in the way of reason and logic.

Seeing so many of you fall for Trumps shallow talking points is just… dissapointing.

At least Brexit had some merit but this? No.



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SubiyaCryolite said:
WagnerPaiva said:
That is the beauty of democracy: people do not have to defend their votes. They will go vote in the candidate they want in power and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent them.
If anything, I encourage everyone that say that they will vote for Hillary to keep saying it and then vote for Trump anyways.
The beauty of democracy is that loud minorities do not matter, only majority consensus.

That’s called tyranny of the masses. The quality of a country’s democracy is directly proportional to the education of the populace.

I live in a 3rd world country and “the masses” tend to be woefully ignorant and vote for presidents based on popularity, rhetoric, and tribal or religious affiliations. The whole country then gets dragged down the shitter because of people voting for incompetent fools who make their situation even worse . The quality of education drops even further and lo and behold even more idiots vote for the same clowns next time around. Rinse and repeat.

Seeing something like this go down in a first world country, and America no less, is shocking to me on so many levels.

This is some banana republic level shit right here.

I thought you guys value facts and policy over rhetoric. I thought you'd know better than to let emotions (hate/fear/superstition) get in the way of reason and logic.

Seeing so many of you fall for Trumps shallow talking points is just… dissapointing.

At least Brexit had some merit but this? No.

Let me just say this: your last trophies are Uncharted 4, Bloodbourne, Second Son and the Uncharted trilogy? Superb selection of games, I must say. These are the cream of the crop.

Second Son remains the most impressive for me, but Bloodbourne is just amazing, what a cool game.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

SubiyaCryolite said:
WagnerPaiva said:
That is the beauty of democracy: people do not have to defend their votes. They will go vote in the candidate they want in power and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent them.
If anything, I encourage everyone that say that they will vote for Hillary to keep saying it and then vote for Trump anyways.
The beauty of democracy is that loud minorities do not matter, only majority consensus.

That’s called tyranny of the masses. The quality of a country’s democracy is directly proportional to the education of the populace.

I live in a 3rd world country and “the masses” tend to be woefully ignorant and vote for presidents based on popularity, rhetoric, and tribal or religious affiliations. The whole country then gets dragged down the shitter because of people voting for incompetent fools who make their situation even worse . The quality of education drops even further and lo and behold even more idiots vote for the same clowns next time around. Rinse and repeat.

Seeing something like this go down in a first world country, and America no less, is shocking to me on so many levels.

This is some banana republic level shit right here.

I thought you guys value facts and policy over rhetoric. I thought you'd know better than to let emotions (hate/fear/superstition) get in the way of reason and logic.

Seeing so many of you fall for Trumps shallow talking points is just… dissapointing.

At least Brexit had some merit but this? No.

That's why the United States ON PAPER is a republic with representatives to protect the people from their passions if needed be.  But then, you have the representatives who are only out for themselves.  People are corrupt.  That's why I don't put faith in politics which puts one in danger of turning a blind eye to the political party they favor.



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Veknoid_Outcast said:
LivingMetal said:

Politcially, Trump is the King of Jerks.  Clinton is the Queen of Career Political Corruption.  I call Trump the less of two very evils.  It's that simple.  People should have the grace to agree to disagree and more on.

Can you expand on that? Can you list Clinton's "corruptions"? Why do those corruptions prompt you to distrust Clinton? And why do you trust Trump to deliver where Clinton cannot? Also, what specific policy propositions of Trump's do you endorse?

1. The Democratic Party in general is known for taking bribes and laundering money while promoting taxation on the rich.  There's a reason Haiti as a whole hates the Clintons and the Democratic Party doesn't argue the validity of the Wikileaks emails, but instead chooses to defer the blame to Russia.  At best the Clintons are incompetent idiots and couldn't handle properly allocating funds in regards to Haiti, which is a huge reason to distrust her in regards to lowering the national debt or handling financial agreements (NAFTA, TPP) as democrats are known to not give a **** and pretend the national debt is an imaginary number.  

 

2. Her trade policies are terrible in comparison to trump's (she supported TPP before she ran her election) You can't keep jobs in the US with those kind of agreements as NAFTA allowed American companies to go to Mexico and pay the great minimum wage of 4 dollars on top of the more lenient taxation.  Did Mexicans want the jobs NAFTA provided?  Nope. (I don't hate undocumented workers, but the agreements actively made Mexico AND the US worse)

http://economyincrisis.org/content/illegal-immigration-and-nafta

illegal immigration has tripled since 1993 (a year before nafta) because the jobs provided were too mediocre in terms of pay among other things.  Those trade agreements are policies I can't get behind.  Rest assured she won't do anything against TPP.

3. She wants no-fly zones consciously knowing a lot of Syrian will die.  But hey, trump said some mean stuff, it doesn't matter if Hillary actively supports conflict with Russia and admits that no fly zones would kill innocent people.  Trump is the loose canon that would start wars left and right.  She only deflects all her corruption she's NEVER denied and blames ornate on Russia.

https://www.google.com/amp/theantimedia.org/hillary-no-fly-zone-civilians-war-russia/amp/?client=safari

4. As far as her policies that I don't support.  Obamacare, gun control, TTP(she low key supports it), Fracking (she's an activist for climate change but is cool with fracking? Unlikely), talk of raising the minimum wage is stupid and irrelevant because inflation would catch up anyway.

5.shady person in general.  How?  She's against Wall Street but gave a "glowing" speech at Goldman Sachs.  Haiti, Syria and other foreign relations



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SuaveSocialist said:

So you are thinking about voting for Trump.  You just might be undecided.  Maybe you’ve already decided.  Perhaps during the Primaries you already have.

Well, there is only one way to say this (bluntly): there’s just no excuse.  A vote for Trump is simply indefensible.  It just cannot be done—not when you have all the facts, or approach the situation rationally, or judge Trump by whatever standards you judge the other candidate(s)--and I’ve brought proof.

Now, there may be some of you who feel triggered by this.  Reality often exists outside Safe Zones.  You may need a stiff drink to wash away the pain, so take a moment to pour yourself one if you like.  Put on some soothing music.  Sit down.  Take a deep breath.  The truth won’t kill you, but sometimes it hurts really, really, really bad.

The following link is a Master Post that chronicles Trump’s ever-growing list of reasons why he should not be allowed near anything or anyone—let alone a position of power or authority.  It is a lengthy read, crammed with sources cited through links and has many, many categories.  It ranges from warning signs of Fascist leanings, his history of racism, sexism, crime and a whole lot more.  Take your time.  You may need another glass.  Or even the entire bottle because it will take a while. http://quantum-displacement.tumblr.com/post/146015554444/anti-trump-masterpost 

So you made it through the list.  Congratulations, the hard part is over.  But my case has not yet been rested.  You may try to say that Trump at the very least “tells it like it is”.  Well...brace for impact.  Somehow you managed to convince yourself that he “tells it like it is” despite having read his documented history of Hypocrisy and Lies, but he’s also a serial flip-flopper who has waffled and contradicted himself on whatever positions or policies you actually approve of.  http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

In addition, as a politician he actually has the worst record of honesty and accuracy in his claims.  Lyin’ Ted has a better record from non-partisan fact-checking: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/  Don’t believe me?  Here’s Ted’s: http://www.politifact.com/personalities/ted-cruz/  Even Hillary Clinton, with her hard-earned and well-deserved reputation for being untrustworthy is basically Honest Abe in comparison http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/.

Brutal
.

But Trump’s troubles aren’t even over.  He’s now a contender for the 2016 Bill Cosby Award---and the other nominee (Roger Ailes http://www.thewrap.com/roger-ailes-sexual-harassment-allegations-from-over-20-women-pour-in-gretchen-carlsons-lawyers-say/ ) is Trump’s campaign advisor!  This December, Trump will face a courtroom battle against a 13 year-old girl he may have raped https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit, more women keep coming forward with sexual assault allegations http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/new-allegations-of-sexual-assault-emerge-against-trump-1.3112215 and his situation keeps getting uglier  https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/10/13/former-toronto-star-journalist-accuses-donald-trump-of-sexual-assault.html .

It’s gotten so bad that the GOP is abandoning their Presidential Nominee. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/republicans-list-trump-disavowal-groping-tape%20.  25% of his own Party won’t endorse him.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/10/11/elected-republicans-not-supporting-donald-trump-president-congress-governors/91913668/ and Trump’s perilous dive in the polls suggest that the People are turning their backs as well http://time.com/4527825/poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-post-debate/ .  All Trump is doing is damaging the Republican Party and tainting Conservative values.

If you are a fiscal conservative, surely you recognize Trumponomics to doom the US to bankruptcy. (read: Economy in the Master Post)

If you are a Constitutionalist, surely you recognize that tossing out entire Amendments and shredding the Bill of Rights is a sorry way of protecting America’s founding principles. (read: Fascism in the Master Post)

if you are a Christian, surely you recognize that Trump’s history and behavior is about as un-Christian as demonstrably possible: http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2016/03/is_voting_for_donald_trump_un-.html

If you are a man or woman of Science, surely you recognize his scientific positions (such as Climate Change being a hoax invented by the Chinese) as farce, as equally opposed to scientific consensus as he is opposed to the tenets of faith.

If you are someone who is tough on crime, surely you expect Trump to be locked up for all of his—starting with that trial in December. (read: Crime in the Master Post)

If you are someone who is tough on terror, surely you do not want your President to be the strawman responsible for a surge in ISIS recruitment (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/20/hillary-clinton/donald-trump-now-being-used-terrorist-propaganda-v/)  .

As an American, surely you see now that there is no excuse.  You have three alternatives who are each much, much better choices—even if those choices aren't always good themselves.  But voting the greater of four evils is nonsensical.  If you voted for Trump in Primaries, you had up to a dozen better options, but you did not know then what you know now.  Whatever minutiae had convinced you to entertain even the possibility of casting a ballot for Trump is objectively overshadowed by mountains of documented reasons to cast one for somebody else.  Even if you cannot bring yourself to vote for one of the alternatives, or even two, there is still a third.  Trump is up against Hillary Clinton, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson--there's more to the race than two people. 

Now you know it as I know it.  It may hurt.  You may experience grief, and the first stage of grief is denial.  You may try to put on a tinfoil hat and/or conjure up some rationalization out of an irrational aether to justify voting for him, but it won't work.  It'll rely too heavily on False Equivalence Fallcies, Strawmen, Red Herrings and attempts to Move the Goalposts.  A vote for Trump is indefensible. 

Trump is like pissing in the toilet your bound to hit a piece of shit.



Funny enough some of the Bushs have endorsed Clinton which shows that Neocons and Neolibs are just a happy united party. Even the green/socialist lady prefers Trump over Clinton now:

"If Donald Trump is President, I'm not going to sleep well at night. If Hillary Clinton is President, I may not wake up at all." - Jill Stein
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/12/jill_stein_hillary_clintons_declared_syria_policy_could_start_a_nuclear_war.html



Important, only use primary sources (what they actually say directly from their own mouth, unedited, uncropped, full context). You are unfortunately using sources that are that heavily edited, biased and hence worthless.

Primary sources or bust.



numberwang said:

Important, only use primary sources (what they actually say directly from their own mouth, unedited, uncropped, full context). You are unfortunately using sources that are that heavily edited, biased and hence worthless.

Primary sources or bust.

The goal posts are staying where they are.  Trying to move them won't do you any good.