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Is the "Free" world losing its mind??

Forums - Politics Discussion - Is the "Free" world losing its mind??

Wyrdness said:
sethnintendo said:

Doesn't help when they migrate to another country and refuse to integrate into the society.  I can understand why they want to keep their traditions but they could still integrate better.

The majority have though that's the problem, the media and various groups only focus on the minority who don't.

However why aren't small number of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists and many other groups engaging in large scale Religious violence on to others while living in the west. 

 

I understand that picking on Islam is unfair but there is a problem in the community that will not go away from being 'political correct' about it. 

 

The flaw is there is a problem and needs to be fixed and I say this as a Muslim...



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Arabs and North Africans are second class citizen in France for decades and Islamophobia is at a fever pitch.

Scandinavian and Northern European countries have shut the door on taking many Refugees recently.

Eastern Europe is backwards minded.

Southern Europe is a economic basket case.

The idea that UK is alone in having issues in the UK is absurd. The entirety of the EU with UK or not has serious problems of racism.



KingCherry said:

No, No No! You're wrong on everything, the typical hear-say, I want to look fair codswallop!

1, Nobody's giving politicians a free pass, they're to blame for allowing so many unskilled, useless Third World migrants into Britain. England, top benefit claimants by country of Birth: Somali, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, Nigerian... Do you see the problem there? That swathe of migrants are a burden and bring absolutely nothing to the country. We even have to import more foreign medical staff to treat the influx of foreigners.

Third World migrants do get pushed to the front of the que. Have you not heard about foreigners arriving and getting free treatment on the NHS before UK Nationals on a waiting list? Criteria to meet, like they care?

2, The situation I'm most likely describing isn't a refugee system, it's the total shambles that is 'Means Tested' benefits. As for your warped logic regarding the migrant family I described, you're making no sense!

Economic migrants do not pay in more taxes than they take out in benefits, where do you get this from? They pay a paltry sum of tax, which on average doesn't even cover their offspring's schooling, their NHS care, social benefits, housing benefits & most importantly, for many, Working Tax Credits. The biggest flaw in your arguement is the long term pay-back. These migrants in future will be entitled to Standard State Pension, housing, Elderly care, NHS elderly medication & treatment, etc... This alone will break the nation, they are a complete and utter burden! Please, wake up!

As for politicians... Yesterday, the UK Labour Party appointed a hugely unintelligent, black racist woman, 'Diane Abbott', as Shadow Home Secretary. We are indeed living in dangerous times!

Do you have a link to all your claims? Or actual data and reports? Sounds like you've made up a bunch of nonsense without fact checking any of it. The scary things is this fits perfectly with a lot of the Tory rhetoric of recent years without you even realising it. This is what I mean by our politicians getting a free pass... you don't even realise you've given them one!

Immigration is simply symptom and reducing it does nothing to address the root causes of our issues. It's like taking parcetamol for a brain tumour. 

On benefits:

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06955.pdf

Page 5:

  • 7.2% of claimants were non-UK nationals
  • Non-UK nationals at the point of NINo registration are less likely to be receiving key DWP out-of-work benefits than UK-born.
So immigrants only make up 7.2% of benefits claimants, and of that 7.2%, the top countries are those you listed. 7.2% migrant vs 92.8% native.
On the NHS:
No idea where you're getting that from (I'm going to guess the Daily Express or the Daily Mail). I have numerous friends who work in the NHS in a range of positions from Doctor's to Radiographers. What you just said is plain false.
And migrants aren't the ones who drain the NHS resources as most are relatively young, of working age and have little need for the NHS. I don't know if you noticed but the population is aging and living longer. More people (the vast majority being natives of the UK) living long past the retirement age developing a whole host of health problems that needs hospitals and social care, whilst our birth rate and working age population alone isn't anywhere near enough to maintain a sustainable health service. That's why we have so many immigrants working in the NHS.
Do we need to train more staff? Yes, of course we do, but that doesn't mean we don't need immigrant workers or that heavily reducing the migrant population is going to solve the issues (in fact it'll make it worse as we won't have enough staff and training people to a satisfactory standard takes a considerable amount of time). Again it comes back to lack of investment, not immigration. 
On the amount of tax paid by migrants:
'For immigrants that arrived since 2000, contributions have been positive throughout, and particularly so for immigrants from EEA countries. Notable is the strong positive contribution made by immigrants from countries that joined the EU in 2004.'
EU migrants have had a net positive contribution. Non-EEA migrants have made a negative contribution but at similar levels to the native population and positive since 2000, especially as many of these are students who pay huge amounts in tuition fees and often go on to setup businesses (51% of startups last year were from the immigrants who had studied here meaning more jobs and tax revenue). You're also ignoring the fact that many of these migrants eventually go back, and if they choose to stay and have contributed like everyone else then surely they've earnt the right to retire here like any of the natives?
Stop believing the bull spread about by papers and people with agendas and just look at the actual data and reports. 
And yes, Labour are shit, the Tories are shit, UKIP are shit, the Lib Dems are non-existent and the SNP are hypocrites. Just to top it all off, rumour has it Tony Blair might be making a comeback. 


Sometimes its not the people themselves you are disagreeing with but the religion. I dislike the teachings of islam. I don't want ritual slaughter or women to be seen as inferior. Islam has a huge amount of intolerance and at the extreme levels hate towards other cultures. Infidel is an insulting term and views that non islams are inferior are highly inflammatory.

I don't think its surprising there is a strong desire to limit or even stop people of the islamic faith coming to Europe. It's hardly intolerant when the main issue with muslims is their intolerance.

I was born into the christian faith but know its complete rubbish. It's a primitive and ridiculous view of life without a single fact that supports it. To be honest from what I've read Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism are all far better on a moral level at least but Islam is even more disturbing than Christianity.

A larger islamic population in the UK will only lead to more intolerance, more hate and frankly more crime.

There are no surprises that many people in the population do not want to see more Muslim immigrants.

I certainly don't view any people as inferior and believe at my core that all should be equal both male and female whatever their skin colour.



LadyJasmine said:

However why aren't small number of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists and many other groups engaging in large scale Religious violence on to others while living in the west. 

 

I understand that picking on Islam is unfair but there is a problem in the community that will not go away from being 'political correct' about it. 

 

The flaw is there is a problem and needs to be fixed and I say this as a Muslim...

Probably because we're not constantly in their countries meddling and fighting because of oil. Believe me if we meddled in countries of other ethnic groups and cultures you'd get the same response from the mad minority in that group, when you make sweeping statements about groups in the same way the media and some people do it becomes easier for the militant components to begin to sway those who are troubled or young with in that group because it creates an atmosphere of "The west is out to get us". Call it political correctness but it exists for a reason and that is because the are more than enough people who go too far.

We're bombing Syria to high heaven because of ISIS another result of our meddling in Iraq and Lybia then our media and various people turn around and call the refugees all sorts of things, guess how that goes down with certain groups in the middle east. When the KKK or Nazi groups do something the media doesn't report it as a christian group in fact every effort is taken to separate this minority form everyone but it seems it's okay to lump all of Islam together with the trouble makers.



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zero129 said:
Scoobes said:

Oh, where to start with this. 

1. Immigration is a scapegoat for a significant lack of investment over the years. The Government of recent years made the mistake of assuming everything the Government spent money had a net loss for the Treasury (ignoring proper costs analysis or the medium to long-term effects of investment). A lot of the areas they've cut over the years are actually of benefit to the treasury in the medium to long-term in terms of increased tax revenue.

When you don't invest properly in local businesses, hospitals, schools, social care etc. you effectively bleed the councils dry before they've even had a chance to allocate the funding. Instead of blaming our politicians for their incompetence we seem to be blaming immigrants which effectively gives their incompetence a free pass.

Also, migrants don't get pushed to the front of the queue. Not even EU migrants get pushed to the front as they have specific eligibility criteria they need to meet, same as the locals. Now, either the migrants getting these benefits are a lot worse off than you think or you need to complain about the way the Government setup the eligibility criteria. Non-EU migrants are in an even worse as they have even stricter criteria to meet. 

2. What you described is most likely a refugee situation, and in those cases the families don't have the right to work and therefore can't rather than won't. Also, the family you describe are incredibly poor compared to the vast majority of people in the Country which contradicts your point about most poor being local Brits. Even then, its not exactly difficult to imagine most of the poor being local Brits considering they make up most of the UK population. 

Furthermore, if we look at actual economic migrants, they pay more in taxes than they take out in benefits, NHS, school and social care costs. The data is all there and flies in the face of the rhetoric in the papers. 

Currently in the UK we have some of the most incompetent and shameful politicians for generations (across the whole political spectrum), but people still just want to blame it on immigrants and let the politicians shit all over us.  

I dont know about the rest of your post since i dont live in the uk but i have family who live there and i go visit. But ill tell you here in ireland the bolded is very much true and a number of my family members have said its the same in the UK. Hell over here in Ireland if your a refugee your pretty much giving a house as soon as you come well our own are left with such a hard time to get a house.

England done the right thing leaving the EU and i hope Ireland will do the same thing and fuck the euro give us back our punt!!.

Refugees are a seperate issue to economic migration and actually the number of refugees in the UK is actually quite low given the nature of the World right now. 

When someone seeks asylum they get put up in temporary accommodation. They then wait to find out whether their asylum has been accepted or rejected and this process can take ages. They're also forbidden from working during this time (which makes it look like they get a free house and scrounge off the Government for months on end). If it is accepted they then get 28 days to leave the house and if they haven't got anything else arranged they become homeless. 



bonzobanana said:
Sometimes its not the people themselves you are disagreeing with but the religion. I dislike the teachings of islam. I don't want ritual slaughter or women to be seen as inferior. Islam has a huge amount of intolerance and at the extreme levels hate towards other cultures. Infidel is an insulting term and views that non islams are inferior are highly inflammatory.

I don't think its surprising there is a strong desire to limit or even stop people of the islamic faith coming to Europe. It's hardly intolerant when the main issue with muslims is their intolerance.

I was born into the christian faith but know its complete rubbish. It's a primitive and ridiculous view of life without a single fact that supports it. To be honest from what I've read Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism are all far better on a moral level at least but Islam is even more disturbing than Christianity.

A larger islamic population in the UK will only lead to more intolerance, more hate and frankly more crime.

There are no surprises that many people in the population do not want to see more Muslim immigrants.

I certainly don't view any people as inferior and believe at my core that all should be equal both male and female whatever their skin colour.

I would say it's more the culture and lack of education than religion. You have plenty of Christian countries in Africa for instance that still practice female genital mutilation. I wouldn't associate that with Christianity.

It's the mix of culture and poor education that have lead to spread of militant Islamic beliefs.



Wyrdness said:
LadyJasmine said:

However why aren't small number of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists and many other groups engaging in large scale Religious violence on to others while living in the west. 

 

I understand that picking on Islam is unfair but there is a problem in the community that will not go away from being 'political correct' about it. 

 

The flaw is there is a problem and needs to be fixed and I say this as a Muslim...

Probably because we're not constantly in their countries meddling and fighting because of oil. Believe me if we meddled in countries of other ethnic groups and cultures you'd get the same response from the mad minority in that group, when you make sweeping statements about groups in the same way the media and some people do it becomes easier for the militant components to begin to sway those who are troubled or young with in that group because it creates an atmosphere of "The west is out to get us". Call it political correctness but it exists for a reason and that is because the are more than enough people who go too far.

We're bombing Syria to high heaven because of ISIS another result of our meddling in Iraq and Lybia then our media and various people turn around and call the refugees all sorts of things, guess how that goes down with certain groups in the middle east. When the KKK or Nazi groups do something the media doesn't report it as a christian group in fact every effort is taken to separate this minority form everyone but it seems it's okay to lump all of Islam together with the trouble makers.

So your solution is we deserve and have to endure it because of the foriegn policy decision of our leaders.

 

How about people who come to the west and spit at a rather free and tolerant society and hate on it and enact violence on it because the believe in the idea "islam is the one true faith and everyone else is infidel that can be killed" 

Good thing the only thing you will in charge of anything of your life is your delusion.

Also , arguing for sensibile refugee policy is not justification for me or you to endure Terrorist attacks. 



LadyJasmine said:

So your solution is we deserve and have to endure it because of the foriegn policy decision of our leaders.

 

How about people who come to the west and spit at a rather free and tolerant society and hate on it and enact violence on it because the believe in the idea "islam is the one true faith and everyone else is infidel that can be killed" 

Good thing the only thing you will in charge of anything of your life is your delusion.

Also , arguing for sensibile refugee policy is not justification for me or you to endure Terrorist attacks. 

You reap what you sow that's how it's always been one day you'll realize that's a fact you have to swallow, many people can't accept what I've told you because they want to push the blame onto something else but fact is we as westerners are facing this because those in power have created this situation. You bomb countries refugees start turning up and your enemies will often hide among them, they know they can't fight the west in conventional ways so have opted for the tactics you see today, ask yourself why are we even fighting in Syria. Mean while the Islamophobia being fed into the atmosphere begins to convert small pockets of those already born and raised in the west.

Only delusion is from people like yourself thinking that everything is all black and white it's actually almost laughable if it weren't sad, people like yourself only want to see a tiny part of the picture because the whole picture is not a pretty sight and brings up a lot of questions that have answers that may not be to your liking. Tell me where are Saddam's WMD that we went into Iraq for and essentially helped remove him? He was the main force dealing with the desease that is ISIS and other Millitants and we removed him over a false claim now the same groups who benefitted from his demise are now carrying out attacks in the US and Europe, even Donald Trump has pointed this out.

Like it or not that's the full picture, every group out there has whack jobs in it I remember the conflicts with UK and the IRA in the 90s for one, ISIS and their milltant counterparts just happen to be the ones who are in our focus now because we've been put on a collision course with them, it's not justification it's the truth of the situation, finally I'll be more worried about you being in cahrge of your own life tbh.