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"Westworld" - HBO science fiction series

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Maeve:

How do you know it was ford that programmed Maeve to escape? and why do you assume it needed to succede?
Maybe its just happend stance it went down the way it did, and she got the help she needed. Also in the end, her "self awareness" choose to not follow through with what she was programmed to do ("escape"), she choose to go back instead.

Maze:

I have no idea why its on the inside of another machines scalp.
Why did she fall dead on a maze? maybe its a dream? not all we saw was 100% factual, some of it was dreams, other time perfect recalled memory.

"these vilolent delights, have violent ends" was a phrase Arnold would say alot. Dont nessarily think it triggered anything in Maeve.



Ford likes to tell stories.
He regrets he forced these conscious minds, into a form of forced slavery where all they would know was suffering. His last story was "I buildt a nation of robots, that are now able to fight for their own freedom".
He didnt make a mistake, he wanted a Human vs Robot, confrontation, hopeing they would win their own freedom. He left it in their own hands though, how they choose to go about it.

"How about you just wipe out everything you made and close the park? If X doesn't exist, then X can't suffer. "
He would see that as murdering them, also he wanted a differnt ending than that for them.

Arnold did what he did, because he couldnt live with himself anymore. Not because he wanted them freed.


"Apparently Ford despised humans, and thought giving the hosts free well is better than Arnold's plan, and that's fine. But Ford is really not correcting his mistake by doing this. He's not even admitting to his mistake in the first place. Why are the writers so slobby? "

His story is the creation of a true A.I.
Thats how he see's his life work, he just wanted more for them than being in that park.
He worked long and hard (putting up with how the park treats them) all to set into motion, a storyline that would endup with freedom for the hosts.

Yes he does acknowledge his mistakes, he talks about it alot in the last episode.
Its why hes the first in line to die, he choose for it to end that way.



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JRPGfan said:
Maeve:

How do you know it was ford that programmed Maeve to escape? and why do you assume it needed to succede?
Maybe its just happend stance it went down the way it did, and she got the help she needed. Also in the end, her "self awareness" choose to not follow through with what she was programmed to do ("escape"), she choose to go back instead.

I went back and watched some parts of the finale, Sylvester told Maeve "There was someone who has been accessing your code so you can wake yourself up out of sleep mode, someone named Arnold", later on Maeve tells Bernard "Before I started altering myself, someone else has beaten me to the punch, I want to know who and why". Bernard didn't get the chance to tell her who altered her, but didn't Sylvester answer that already? It was Arnold = Bernard with Ford's instructions. If not, that means whoever altered her to escape was dumb and stupid because his/her plan depended heavily on humans being cooperative and completely secretive. It would also make the story messier than it already was, how is it possible that such dangerous alterations go unnoticed? Unless Ford was behind it of course...

Which I believe he was, let's not forget, earlier in the season, in the episode in which Bernard killed Teresa, Charlotte Hale told Teresa, with Hector tied in her bed, that their plan to kick Ford out required a "blood sacrifice". Later on when Ford lured Teresa into his den he told her that her death would be a "Blood sacrifice". Ford quoted exactly what Hale said in a private conversation in the presence of Hector, heavily implying that Ford missed nothing the hosts experienced in his absence. How could Ford not miss small things, as small as conversations, but miss dangerous alterations to Maeve's code? A possible answer is that he didn't miss it, because he was the one behind it. Not to mention, the timing of Maeve's escape, that resulted in the distraction of much needed security guards and keeping them busy and trapped inside the building while the rest of the hosts were commiting a mass massacre is further evidence that it was all a part of Ford's bigger plan.

I actually looked online and a lot of people agree that it was Ford: https://www.quora.com/SPOILER-Who-was-the-Arnold-that-modified-Maeves-code

Maze:

I have no idea why its on the inside of another machines scalp.
Why did she fall dead on a maze? maybe its a dream? not all we saw was 100% factual, some of it was dreams, other time perfect recalled memory.

"these vilolent delights, have violent ends" was a phrase Arnold would say alot. Dont nessarily think it triggered anything in Maeve.


The show creators tried to put a lot of emphasis on how Maeve was "waking up" at the beginning of the show.  It started with a change that was triggered in Dolores when Abernathy/Delores' father told her "these violent delights have violet ends", after he's been changed by finding a picture of the outside world. Similarly, Maeve was shown to have been struck by the same phrase and something inside her was triggered. Even Elsie had similar concerns, she literally said : "let me pull the hosts who had contact with him [Abernathy], like the daughter Dolores. Because if this is not a dissonant episode, then whatever Abernathy had could be contagious. So to speak".

It almost seems like the writers had a change of heart and decided that Maeve's first independent choice should be the one she made in the final moments of the season, pretending everything else she did was programmed while completely implying otherwise, and that's cheap and lazy of them. I've said said at the beginning of the show that we could easily guess where the story was headed, at least the story of the first season, and I think the writers knew that as well. So they tried to escape the predictability by forcing a needless twist that added nothing to the story, because the end result is the same, Maeve would've made her completely independent choice even without the twist that undermined what the writers tried to teach us in the first few episodes


Ford likes to tell stories.
He regrets he forced these conscious minds, into a form of forced slavery where all they would know was suffering. His last story was "I buildt a nation of robots, that are now able to fight for their own freedom".
He didnt make a mistake, he wanted a Human vs Robot, confrontation, hopeing they would win their own freedom. He left it in their own hands though, how they choose to go about it.

 That's great. I don't have a problem with that. What I don't understand is, what was Ford's mistake? The mistake he thought he made, not the mistake we or Arnold think Ford made. Because it seems to me that all he needed to do is to downgrade the hosts to a code that doesn't include "the reveries" and they wouldn't have gained consciousness and they wouldn't have become "Alive". Or just close the damn park.

Ford said: "I was so close to opening the park that to acknowledge your consciousness would have destroyed my dreams. Wasn't it Oppenheimer who said that any man whose mistakes take 10 years to correct is quite a man? Mine have taken 35." After that Ford shows us his the last narrative that he's been working on, and guess what, it isn't correcting any mistakes. His last narrative fullfilled his "desire to create something of lasting beauty". Once again doing what he wants, not what Arnold wanted, Ford clearly has no problem with the hosts gaining consciousness and becoming "alive", on the other hand, Delores becoming alive shook Arnold to the core and pushed him to kill himself to stop Ford from opening the park with more hosts that could become alive one day.

"How about you just wipe out everything you made and close the park? If X doesn't exist, then X can't suffer. "

He would see that as murdering them, also he wanted a differnt ending than that for them.

Arnold did what he did, because he couldnt live with himself anymore. Not because he wanted them freed.

Arnold wanted to stop Ford from opening the park, no matter the cost. Arnold couldn't convince Ford with arguments, so he decided to show Ford that Delores is alive and can make a choice that goes against her core code even if it meant killing a human! The writers spoon-fed us this bit of information. Try re-watching the finale and you will see it for yourself. It's all there. I rewinded twice the scenes of Ford narrating what happened in the past to Delores, and the viewers by extension. 

"Apparently Ford despised humans, and thought giving the hosts free well is better than Arnold's plan, and that's fine. But Ford is really not correcting his mistake by doing this. He's not even admitting to his mistake in the first place. Why are the writers so slobby? "

His story is the creation of a true A.I.
Thats how he see's his life work, he just wanted more for them than being in that park.
He worked long and hard (putting up with how the park treats them) all to set into motion, a storyline that would endup with freedom for the hosts.

Yes he does acknowledge his mistakes, he talks about it alot in the last episode.
Its why hes the first in line to die, he choose for it to end that way.

What is his mistake? Ford's mistakes are obvious to the viewers and tp Arnold. But Ford himself doesn't seem to understand. The writers have no clue what Ford's main mistake and what he's doing to correct it!!

Bernard: "You think you'll never lose control of this place. Of us. But you will. Arnold's still trying to change us. To free us. You didn't slip the reveries into the update, did you? He did. He's still fighting you."

Ford: "No, my friend. Arnold didn't know how to save you. He tried, but I stopped him. It was when Arnold died, when I suffered, that I... began to understand what he had found. To realize I was wrong. Arnold didn't know how to save you. I do. You needed time. Time to understand your enemy. To become stronger than them. And I'm afraid in order to escape this place, you will need to suffer more."

What the hell is Ford talking about? He claims he finally understood what drove Arnold to try so hard to stop him from opening the park. Then he goes on explaining how he wants the hosts to be stronger than humans so they can beat them. WTF.

Robots fighting humans and winning that fight is not what Arnold wanted. Arnold simply didn't want the park to exist in the first place. Arnold didn't want the hosts to gain consciousness. Ford himself told us that moments ago, he literally said "In you, Arnold found a new child. One who would never die. He realized that same immortality would destine you to suffer with no escape, forever". That was Arnold's biggest fear. Not war with humans. He simply wanted the park to never open. No immortal conscious hosts, no suffering! 



LurkerJ said:
Augen said:
I love the hidden song done via piano covers like this and Soundgarden.

On recent episode, I saw the twist coming a while back, but I still enjoyed how it was handled.

Yup, I was waiting for them to pull "one of the humans turned to be a host afterall" card. You just know that's gonna be one of the twists in such a story. But despite predicting the twist, it didn't take away from my enjoyment, it was very well done and once again, Anthony Hopkins made it 1000x awesome. (Teresa was amazing though, I am gonna miss her)

Some bad news: season 2 is scheduled for no eariler than 2018



SkepticallyMinded said:
LurkerJ said:

Some bad news: season 2 is scheduled for no eariler than 2018

scream.gif

Not bad news anymore. The show needs better writers and a tighter grip over the messy story. Lack of attention to details is astonishing.

10 years ago, I fell into JJ Abram's trap of withholding too much information from viewers. LOST was so intriguing because we knew nothing for 2 seasons. The moment we started getting answers was the moment the show stopped being fun. His remedy was to introduce more questions, the show ended with so many questions left unanswered. That's not bad, because the ones that were answered just made us sigh. 

The moment WW started giving us the complete stories behind the park was the moment it turned into a mess. Assuming you didn't mind that a minor employee can do whatever he wants with a tablet endangering everyone without being caught.



JRPGfan said:
Maeve:

How do you know it was ford that programmed Maeve to escape? and why do you assume it needed to succede?
Maybe its just happend stance it went down the way it did, and she got the help she needed. Also in the end, her "self awareness" choose to not follow through with what she was programmed to do ("escape"), she choose to go back instead.

I don't think we can be certain of that. Bernard read her script to her, and it went like this: "Then, you're to make your way to the train. Then, when you reach the main..." and there he got interrupted. By "main" he may have been refering to mainland, as "Mainland infiltration " is shown on his tablet. However it could also be something else, like main line, or main train car, or something like that. And the story of mainland infiltration may have included her changing her mind halfway through. Wouldn't be the first time the series has thrown us for a loop.

As for who programmed Maeve, Ford seems like the most likely answer, but I don't think we can be certain of that either. In her script code, you see the word Arnold mentioned several times. Perhaps Ford used that name on putpose.
But as we learned in this episode, Arnold doesn't seem to exist anywhere in the game. The voice that Dolores heard all along was her own. So perhaps she is not only Wyatt, but the Arnold that has been speaking to various hosts and altered codes, subconsciously.

It's either her or Ford, is my guess.

It's very interesting that this season ended by basically revealing the mystery behind pretty much all major plotlines, and doing away with many of those characters. (Unless Ford made a replica host of himself, and isn't really dead. Although he had tears in his eyes when he said good bye to Bernard, so he may very well really be dead.)
Not much of it seems like it will carry on to Season 2, besides Dolores, so I guess they'll need to introduce a number of new characters and mysteries next season.



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OST is officially released. A new ringtone



LurkerJ said:
SkepticallyMinded said:

scream.gif

Not bad news anymore. The show needs better writers and a tighter grip over the messy story. Lack of attention to details is astonishing.

10 years ago, I fell into JJ Abram's trap of withholding too much information from viewers. LOST was so intriguing because we knew nothing for 2 seasons. The moment we started getting answers was the moment the show stopped being fun. His remedy was to introduce more questions, the show ended with so many questions left unanswered. That's not bad, because the ones that were answered just made us sigh. 

The moment WW started giving us the complete stories behind the park was the moment it turned into a mess. Assuming you didn't mind that a minor employee can do whatever he wants with a tablet endangering everyone without being caught.

This is a good point but I don't think this will go the route of Lost. Information was revealed about characters who ultimately were killed off, so their back story was going to become immediately irrelevant if it wasn't told at this time.