By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's Taxes and the media

Zkuq said:
Lrdfancypants said:

I would want the people I work for to use whatever laws are available to cut back on corporate taxes owed.  

Whether the laws should be changed is a different argument. 

I wouldn't consider it a separate argument. If the laws should be changed, it means there's something wrong with the current laws, which in turn makes abusing the existing law morally shady. We're pretty much talking about the morality of Trump evading taxes here, and I don't think we can fully dismiss 'should be law be changed' as an argument then. It's not the main point but it's still related.

I respectfully disagree because I would bet, if I were a betting man, far more people try their best to pay as little taxes as possible than just write a check without attempting any write-offs.  



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

Around the Network

knowing how politics work, what is the chance this 1995 tax document was released from Trump team. Its interesting the time period of the tax return and how Trump surrogates have Jump all over this subject trying to paint Trump as a genius. This is comical unless he himself actually did his returns. The fact that the document came from the Trump tower also make it very suspicious. If anything this document was something his team probably needed to do because Trump was going in a death spiral over the Miss Universe topic which he never should have entertained in the first place.



Lrdfancypants said:

I respectfully disagree because I would bet, if I were a betting man, far more people try their best to pay as little taxes as possible than just write a check without attempting any write-offs.  

I think this brings to light that there needs to an elimination of all write offs.  What is the main point of a lobbyist?  To get tax loopholes written into law.  If you get rid of the loopholes then you get rid of most of the lobbyist.



Lrdfancypants said:
Zkuq said:

I wouldn't consider it a separate argument. If the laws should be changed, it means there's something wrong with the current laws, which in turn makes abusing the existing law morally shady. We're pretty much talking about the morality of Trump evading taxes here, and I don't think we can fully dismiss 'should be law be changed' as an argument then. It's not the main point but it's still related.

I respectfully disagree because I would bet, if I were a betting man, far more people try their best to pay as little taxes as possible than just write a check without attempting any write-offs.  

It's still shady. It just means a lot of people are willing to do something shady if it doesn't mean trouble for them. But you'd expect a leader to lead with example, and Trump doesn't exactly set a good example here.



i don't give a fuck if they are legal.


they are legal because of the pay-to-play politics big organization can afford to do that create and maintain loop holes that benefit the rich. legal or not it is immoral to shift the tax burden to the middle class and small business.

what i want is a president that will close the loop holes and create a tax system that is fairly distributed. what i don't want is a president who's tax platform includes removing the estate tax to his own personal benefit that will require the programs that serve out poor to be gutted.


how poor and middle class republicans can cheer on getting fucked by america's rich oligarchy i'll never know.



Around the Network
SuaveSocialist said:
Zanten said:
I still don't get this entire situation.

There being concerns against Hilary, totally get. She seems a chameleon who just kind of adopted some of Bernie's more PR-pleasing policies, and in my opinion at least her stance seems fairly artificial. I.e., whereas with Sanders I had the impression that this was a guy who very much meant every word he said- and that even if, as president, he couldn't live up to all he hoped to achieve, he was still going into this VERY much prepared to fight for those goals- with Clinton it feels more like she's saying whatever will help get her foot in the door.

But... with all that said, how is Trump a viable alternative?

If I were JUST to look at the things Clinton has been criticized on and say 'Okay, so how is Trump better in that regard?' I'm left drawing blanks. He isn't more honest than Clinton. He isn't more ethical, or more generous, or more composed, or more competent, or... pretty much ANY trait that I would deem positive or 'Presidential.' o_O Even in the areas Clinton comes up short, Trump ties with her at best, and comes up even shorter at worst.

Honesty is something that the OP mentions specifically with regards to the 'lying mainstream media.' Trump seems to have a reputation among his supporters for being honest, and I can't figure out why that's the case.

Is it because he says lots of stupid things that most politicians would keep quiet about/phrase more delicately? That because he said a female reporter had 'blood coming from her wherever,' Trump somehow 'tells it like it is,' unlike those mean ol' politicians who just lie, lie, lie...

...because yeah, politicians spinning falsehoods is something so embedded in their very identity now, it's become a cliche, and this applies to Clinton as well. If I recall correctly, fact checkers estimated she made demonstrably false claims/lied 4 times during her debate with Trump, and there are those in Trump's camp who would be quick to point at them at signs of her dishonesty.

So if Trump's ill-thought-out statements were joined hand-in-hand with honesty and accountability to the facts, then that MIGHT be worth it as a trade-off.

Except that during the same debate, Trump was found to made false claims/lies 34 times. Not a typo, that's thirty-four times. So... basically we have a man who says lots of offensive and stupid things, AND lies more frequently. How is this in any way an improvement?

* * *

The concept of honesty also brings us to those tax statements, and why Trump's campaign was so eager to keep the matter under wraps for as long as possible. Because even if it's legal, it's kind of hard to claim 'I'm looking out for the average American' when it turns out you've been ducking out the same bills those average Americans have to pay.

And Trump, or those who run his campaign, know that. It's why there was such a frantic song-and-dance around not releasing them in the first place, and his lie about it being due to the audit the IRS was putting him through was meant to try and plug the speculative void. They wanted people to say 'Oh, he's just not releasing the statements because he's under an audit. I'm sure he's not trying to hide anything! Real salt of the Earth, that man.'

The funny thing is that when the IRS pretty much said 'Uhhh, no, Trump can release his info, we really don't care, the audit isn't preventing him,' Trump's campaign couldn't think of a replacement excuse. That's why he just doubled down and continued to insist it was because the IRS was auditing him.

Of course, now that their backs are up against the wall, it's on to Plan B; 'Trump Not Paying Taxes Is Just Proof Of His Financial Genius!'

* * *

I suppose what this all comes down to; if anyone calls Clinton crooked, or a liar, or dishonest, or self-serving, then yeah, okay, I can see where a lot of it comes from. what I don't see is how they do not then AUTOMATICALLY apply the same descriptors to Trump, because he is very much all of those things in ways that are pretty public! =P

You should copy and paste this as an OP to a new thread.  So much truth.  So little space.  It deserves more than to be lost in a sea of replies.

i would also like to +1 this post.



Zkuq said:
Lrdfancypants said:

I respectfully disagree because I would bet, if I were a betting man, far more people try their best to pay as little taxes as possible than just write a check without attempting any write-offs.  

It's still shady. It just means a lot of people are willing to do something shady if it doesn't mean trouble for them. But you'd expect a leader to lead with example, and Trump doesn't exactly set a good example here.

That's where we differ as I don't think it's shady to reduce my tax burden and if I do it yearly I see no way I can then claim others are shady for doing the same.  



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

sethnintendo said:
Lrdfancypants said:

I respectfully disagree because I would bet, if I were a betting man, far more people try their best to pay as little taxes as possible than just write a check without attempting any write-offs.  

I think this brings to light that there needs to an elimination of all write offs.  What is the main point of a lobbyist?  To get tax loopholes written into law.  If you get rid of the loopholes then you get rid of most of the lobbyist.

I would be in favor of a flat tax % for all.  



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

thismeintiel said:
bunchanumbers said:
I think there's a difference though. The New York Times isn't running for president, claim to be a genius at business, or telling the people that they're the hero of the working class.

This. I'm not voting for either one of these jackasses. "My party" keeps telling me you gotta vote for Trump because Hillary will win and she's horrible. Well, I say fuck that. I'm not abandoning my principles and voting for that clown. He's just as bad. Maybe worse.

 

That's the spirit. The US has become a state governed by fear and fearmongering, in mote than just one issue. People need the courage to stand with what they think is right.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

the real value in the tax information to me is further realization of how poor and (at times) unethical of a businessman Trump is. whatever it takes to not lose too much.

It also is disturbing that Trump has so poorly invested the money that he inherited from his father. Decades ago if he had put his money into the safest possibly LOW return investment fund he'd hypothetically have like 2 or 3x what he has now.

Also even if there are loopholes in which you can tank struggling business to write off your losses by not having to pay taxes- is someone who has repeatedly done that someone you WANT running the economy?

I mean somewhere like China similarly does whatever it takes to maintain their economy by making their currency as cheap as possible as to make a favorable trade pattern for other countries (currency to currency) and encourage people to trade with them. Trump sort of reminds of that, artificially keeping afloat by taking advantages of loop holes that in the long run do not strengthen or build up your business or economy. Again, Trump would be in a lot better position if he didn't do ANYTHING for the last few decades (essentially). 

His taxes are relevant because he paints himself as an extremely clever businessman when the reality is he regularly has had to jump off the boat for his struggling businesses and that his father's estate adjusted for inflation should be worth far more than it is now but Trump handled the assets terribly