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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17
darkknightkryta said:

I don't think anyone knows how to sell anymore.  I miss the tension that used to come from someone fighting a finisher for his dear life.  Then we have Orton kicking out of the FU on Smackdown...  Or Cena kicking out of the RKO, I can't remember what happened.

There was a spot in Styles vs. Ibushi when AJ was trying to get Ibushi into position for the Styles Clash.  Ibushi started twisting and squirming in panic.  It did so much to put over the Clash as a "game over" move.  

If you're letting guys kick out of a finisher two or three times on a consistent basis then something is wrong with your storytelling.  

badgenome said:
pokoko said:

Killer Elite will take the tag titles, though, I'm pretty sure.

Man, Suzuki-gun getting at least this much seemed like a shoo-in and it won't happen now that Archer's injured.

sobs

On the bright side, GBH's chances just went up!

Even Honma can't make me care about Makabe.  

Thinking about Suzuki-gun reminds me of that moment when I realized the Nexus invading RAW wasn't about the Nexus, it was really about John Cena.  

Speaking of Ishii, though, I wonder if this is like a paid vacation for him?  Otherwise, he's too good to just mill around.

With the elevation of Okada to god status, New Japan is in a wierd place where it feels very stratified.  I know they're brining new guys into the fold but things really need a shake-up.  I was hoping SZG would create that but maybe not.  

I'm hoping the next G1 throws a serious monkey wrench into the works.



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pokoko said:

Even Honma can't make me care about Makabe.

You are one cold hearted woman.

I wouldn't say I care about Makabe. He alright, but on his own he's just very... there. But Honma as Chester to Makabe's Spike is always heartwarming and usually really entertaining to me.

pokoko said:

Speaking of Ishii, though, I wonder if this is like a paid vacation for him?  Otherwise, he's too good to just mill around.

I dunno, I think that's just his level in their eyes. That win over Okada in the G1 gives me some small hope that they'll prove me wrong, but I think the tag title or NEVER Title is about it for him. Part of the problem with their having so many titles now is they don't seem to want to spend time developing programs that don't directly involve titles, so we probably won't be getting anything like the Ishii/Shibata or Ishii/Honma series out of him unless they put him in a title picture again.

pokoko said:

With the elevation of Okada to god status, New Japan is in a wierd place where it feels very stratified.  I know they're brining new guys into the fold but things really need a shake-up.  I was hoping SZG would create that but maybe not.  

I'm hoping the next G1 throws a serious monkey wrench into the works.

I hope it starts with the New Japan Cup. I wouldn't really say I'm hoping for this because it's awfully specific and quite a long shot (plus I don't think they put champions in the NJC since, stupidly, the winner can choose to challenge for any title... like someone would pick the NEVER Title over the IWGP), but I thought about it and what I'd really like to see happen is:

- Goto wins, beating Omega in the final and getting his wins back from last year.

- Okada naturally beats Goto, putting him at a record 0-9 for IWGP challenges. Haha, what a loser!

- But then Goto wins the G1, too, beating Tanahashi in the final. Oh, snap! He's going to Wrestle Kiiiiiingdom!

- But, of course, they always have the G1 winner defend his challenging rights a couple of times before hand. Which is pretty stupid because nobody ever wins the briefcase off of the G1 winner, since that's the guy they've decided to push. (incidentally, I fucking hate briefcases in wrestling for some reason... I guess I'll blame IRS for that). So we'll have Goto/Omega to help plug the gap between August and January. Except, lo and behold, Omega wins! Omega/Okada II is set for Wrestle Kingdom! Goto, you fuckin' goof...

- Since there's so much time to kill, though, Omega has to defend the briefcase once. So Goto gets another chance... and he wins! He's main eventing Wrestle Kingdom after all!

- There's maybe some low key tension between them but Okada/Goto team up in the tag league and take turns outdoing each other and getting strong wins. Let's say they meet Tanahashi & friend (Elgin or Juice would be good) in the final, with Tanahashi pinning Goto to finally win the tag league for the first time since that's the one big accolade he's missing on his resume. Goto, you dolt!

- Now some recriminations fly back and forth and little heat starts building between Goto and Okada, though they keep teaming with the rest of Chaos for the last shows of the year and don't actually lock up until the Dome where the tenth time turns out to be the charm and Goto finally stops being almost-great to become the real fucking deal. At that point he could split off from Chaos and go back to the main group, which would be good because besides Tanahashi the regular, unaffiliated babyfaces are kind of thin on the ground and mostly old as fuck.



badgenome said:

You are one cold hearted woman.

I wouldn't say I care about Makabe. He alright, but on his own he's just very... there. But Honma as Chester to Makabe's Spike is always heartwarming and usually really entertaining to me.

I dunno, I think that's just his level in their eyes. That win over Okada in the G1 gives me some small hope that they'll prove me wrong, but I think the tag title or NEVER Title is about it for him. Part of the problem with their having so many titles now is they don't seem to want to spend time developing programs that don't directly involve titles, so we probably won't be getting anything like the Ishii/Shibata or Ishii/Honma series out of him unless they put him in a title picture again.

I hope it starts with the New Japan Cup. I wouldn't really say I'm hoping for this because it's awfully specific and quite a long shot (plus I don't think they put champions in the NJC since, stupidly, the winner can choose to challenge for any title... like someone would pick the NEVER Title over the IWGP), but I thought about it and what I'd really like to see happen is:

- Goto wins, beating Omega in the final and getting his wins back from last year.

- Okada naturally beats Goto, putting him at a record 0-9 for IWGP challenges. Haha, what a loser!

- But then Goto wins the G1, too, beating Tanahashi in the final. Oh, snap! He's going to Wrestle Kiiiiiingdom!

- But, of course, they always have the G1 winner defend his challenging rights a couple of times before hand. Which is pretty stupid because nobody ever wins the briefcase off of the G1 winner, since that's the guy they've decided to push. (incidentally, I fucking hate briefcases in wrestling for some reason... I guess I'll blame IRS for that). So we'll have Goto/Omega to help plug the gap between August and January. Except, lo and behold, Omega wins! Omega/Okada II is set for Wrestle Kingdom! Goto, you fuckin' goof...

- Since there's so much time to kill, though, Omega has to defend the briefcase once. So Goto gets another chance... and he wins! He's main eventing Wrestle Kingdom after all!

- There's maybe some low key tension between them but Okada/Goto team up in the tag league and take turns outdoing each other and getting strong wins. Let's say they meet Tanahashi & friend (Elgin or Juice would be good) in the final, with Tanahashi pinning Goto to finally win the tag league for the first time since that's the one big accolade he's missing on his resume. Goto, you dolt!

- Now some recriminations fly back and forth and little heat starts building between Goto and Okada, though they keep teaming with the rest of Chaos for the last shows of the year and don't actually lock up until the Dome where the tenth time turns out to be the charm and Goto finally stops being almost-great to become the real fucking deal. At that point he could split off from Chaos and go back to the main group, which would be good because besides Tanahashi the regular, unaffiliated babyfaces are kind of thin on the ground and mostly old as fuck.

1.)  It's not that I dislike Makabe, it's more that he has that Big Show quality where I just don't care one way or the other.  But, you're right, Honma is always fun.  Honma's G1 from a few years ago was Sailor Moon levels of magical.

B.)  Ishii, Goto, and Honma are examples of that stratification I was talking about.  I think Gedo has a little Bio written up for each wrestler with stuff like "Max level - NEVER title" or "IC title possible but only as a transition".  Someone with a different mindset and vision needs to enter the decision-making mix or it will get extremely predictable.

3.)  All that sounds great.  I'll eat my sister's cat if they do anything that nuanced for Goto, though.  I think it's more likely that they make Goto look to be at fault for letting down CHAOS and Okada.  I just hope that when he leaves, he leaves big and costs CHAOS a title.  They'll probably simply use a disagreement between Okada and Goto to produce a mini-feud to give Okada a few more wins until next Wrestle Kingdom.

What I really want to see if Goto absolutely snap and beat the crap out of both Okada and Gedo.  He could then show up with a heel faction and be a beast.

If they had managers, they could copy one of my favorite heel turns of all time, where JJ Dillion got into Barry Windham's head by telling him that Lex Luger thought he was a much bigger star than Windham and would flake out on him when he needed help (which the Horsemen made happen).  Dillion's promo at the start of the video could easily apply to Okada being the "golden boy" like Luger.  



pokoko said:

I'll eat my sister's cat

...

pokoko said:

They'll probably simply use a disagreement between Okada and Goto to produce a mini-feud to give Okada a few more wins until next Wrestle Kingdom.

What I really want to see if Goto absolutely snap and beat the crap out of both Okada and Gedo.  He could then show up with a heel faction and be a beast.

Maybe, but I don't expect even that because part of Gedo's very rigid outlook is having a clear #1, #2, #3, etc., in each faction. Which is in turn a big part of the predictability problem, like when Okada and Goto had that mini-feud year and it OF COURSE led to Goto replacing Nakamura as Chaos' #2. I don't really see Goto going anywhere unless Gedo sees Ishii as a valid #2 or really gets a wild hair and decides to disband Chaos altogether.

But you're right. Goto, when he's fired up, is great and can be a very credible beast. It's sad watching him go through the motions so often because he's permanently stuck at that one level. If they ever decide to do so they could easily develop him into a great Hashimoto-style destroyer, what with his whole quasi-samurai thing he has going. That would also help alleviate their problem with overly long main events between all these thin, athletic, jumpy guys who make you swear you're watching Dragon Gate.



Elimination Chamber 2017 prediction

Pre-show:
Mojo Rawley vs Curt Hawkins

Main-show:
Nikki Bella vs Natalya
American Alpha (Chad Gable and Jason Jordan) (c.) vs Heath Slater and Rhyno vs Breezango (Fandango and Tyler Breeze) vs The Usos (Jimmy and Jey Uso) vs The Ascension (Konnor and Viktor) vs The Vaudevillains (Aiden English and Simon Gotch)
Alexa Bliss (c.) vs Naomi
Becky Lynch vs Mickie James
Apollo Crews and Kalisto vs Dolph Ziggler
Luke Harper vs Randy Orton
John Cena (c.) vs. AJ Styles vs Dean Ambrose vs The Miz vs Baron Corbin vs Bray Wyatt



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Oh, that's today? Hm.

And the WWE title is up for grabs? Hard to believe Cena would lose it that quickly.

I know Harper isn't going to win but I do hope they let him look like he's on Orton's level.



Just about the same on my end.



LOL at the Ascension. XD



Not sure why a heel was in a handicap match against two babyfaces. Are they trying to build sympathy for Ziggler? That makes no sense. Why is the heel the underdog?

Then the heel takes out one of the opponents, which is good, but then he dominates the remaining babyface until the other face returns in other to make it an unfair match once more?

Who does any of that help?

And Kalisto bouncing around after barely being able to walk was just hilarious.



Well. That was a crappy finish to a great match.