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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4Pro Has A GPU Feature That Improves PSVR

setsunatenshi on 01 October 2016
Chazore said:
setsunatenshi said:

So, yeah... I love my PC and can't even fathom playing certain types of games on a console, but we've got to be realistic here. VR success is linked to PSVR, not PCVR right now.

You can see into the definite written in stone future?. That's a pretty bold assumption to make. What about mobile VR and how huge that market is?.

I have stated before what I think of mobile VR from my own experience. It sucks way too much for gaming. For video/movies/stream I can see it doing well once VR itself becomes more mainstream.

And no, I can't see the future in any stone, just have an idea of where things tend to go based on my current knowledge and past experience. Different than blindly guessing too



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setsunatenshi on 01 October 2016
Pemalite said:
setsunatenshi said:

I've been a PC gamer since 1998, I know perfectly well what games are on PC.

Not trying to be a dick here, but I will quote myself once again to see if you get my point:

"the PC is lacking the real AAA experiences that the PS4 will get, and that's the advantage of having a major 1st party supporting the platform."

But it's also not true. Because the PC will get all the console exclusives anyway. It's a matter of when, not if.


setsunatenshi said:

 I'm speaking mostly about 1st party games that Sony will push to support the VR platform. There aren't many AAA VR games for now in general, but the ones that will be coming out are for now PSVR exclusive.

 

So, yeah... I love my PC and can't even fathom playing certain types of games on a console, but we've got to be realistic here. VR success is linked to PSVR, not PCVR right now.

VR is not going to go mainstream untill it hits a low enough entry price, it's not low enough even with the PS4VR.

There is potential for sales to go gang-busters in the future though which is what these company's are betting on.

SvennoJ said:

As far as I understand it, it's a lot more simple than "motion flow" and the like. psvr is simply shifting the image a bit based on the latest headtracking information. Everything still moves at 60fps, yet headtracking positioning is corrected at 120hz to help combat motion sickness. I don't know whether they render a slightly bigger frame or smudge out the edges, need to see it in person.
No clue if it will look a little "off", I never use motion flow, 24p mode for me :) Yet when you turn your head you want the screen to stay stable, so 120hz is best I would imagine. PSVR can do native 90hz too btw.

PC VR is restricted to 90hz (for now), perhaps ps4 pro can do native 120hz in some games. But sure, you can add as much rendering grunt as you want on PC and downsample from 5210x2160, although tough to render that at locked 90fps.

I am aware that there is more to reprojection than that, but I was also trying to keep it simple, this forum isn't exactly filled with the most tech-savvy enthusiasts I have ever seen.
It's also still not as good as a native solution either.

I am *really* interested in how the scene will evolve in the PC space, because modders from all corners are lifting their heads and taking notice.

I don't completely disagree with your responses to me this time. Many current PSVR exclusives will definitely come to PC, but the 1st party won't, as they never have done since Sony came to the console market. Many most of the Japanese games also will not come to PC, so that's another big slice of the market.

Then there's that little thing about the cost of the tech, another reason why the only chance for this tech right now depends on the PSVR, it's about half the price of the best PC VR option, plus every single PS4 user is VR ready. I agree the prices should go further down in the future and tech should improve even further, but this is it's best first step at the moment (not Vive nor the Rift).



Conina on 01 October 2016
zero129 said:
SvennoJ said:

What if time is an option and a person might not want to bother with setting up vive and wants to use VR in different rooms by simply moving the console and one easy to place camera. You can buy a psvr bundle and start gaming in 5 minutes vs research what you need in a PC, upgrade/build/order it and research how to setup Vive properly.

PSVR is for the mainstream. For those who don't bother buying blu-rays and go for the convenience of streaming instead of spending 30 seconds more inserting a disc for much better quality.

Good then that you can use a small form factor PC thats just as small as the PS4 and use Vive well sitting down and it will still be the better expereience.

Dont try arguring here that the PSVR compares to the Vive as it really isnt even in the same ballpark.

No one is saying that the PSVR isnt worth it for the cost but if money isnt an option why would a person want the lesser hardware?.

Also im tired of you making PC out to look like som complicated mess to use. Its clear your PC is anchint since you have said so your self so many times.

Any downplaying you do of PC comes from 3rd party sources or from "When i last used PC" like 10 years ago!.

I have to disagree. I see the PSVR in the same ballpark as HTC Vive and Oculus Rift, all 3 products have their advantages and disadvantages.

The display resolution of PSVR is a bit lower, but the image quality also depends on other factors. The full RGB-RGB-pattern instead of the Pentile RG-BG-pattern of OR / Vive makes up for most of the resolution gap and keeps the annoying screendoor-effect in check (RGB subpixels can usually be stacked much closer together than Pentile subpixels). OR's / Vive's resolution advantage is wasted by their displays' subpixel-matrix.

The big advantage of the HTC Vive ain't the image quality but the room scale possibilities. And for people who want to move around to get the best immersion it is an important factor. For lazy people like me who want to comfortably sit while playing VR games (or standing on a spot without blindly walking around), the roomscale possibilities are quite uninteresting.

PSVR has other big advantages. F.e., it is the most comfortable of these 3 headsets, especially for people wearing glasses.It has been said by many others, but in this unboxing video you can see, how easy it is to put on and take off the headset while wearing glasses:


View on YouTube

I'm sure there will be "second generation" PC VR headsets in the next years which are an improvement in every aspect than OR + Vive + PSVR. I'm waiting for these until I invest in PC VR.

Until then I'll have fun with PSVR and its exclusive or timed exclusive VR games. When I look through the announced and available VR games, there are a lot more PSVR-exclusive games than PC VR exclusive games that interest me.

And I'm not downplaying PC gaming. As many of you know PC is my main gaming platform and that I have a VR-ready PC. I also love to play on my consoles and handhelds, but my PC gets by far most of my "gaming time".

PS: I don't believe these secret sauce claims. The PS4 Pro is a lot faster than the PS4, so of course it can deliver a better performance and/or image quality for PSVR without any secret features. Even if the PSVR resolution is fix, some/better antialiasing can improve the image quality of the PSVR games a lot... I'm looking at you, Resident Evil 7 VR!



Kerotan on 01 October 2016

If the argument is that pc will get all the console exclusives years down the line similar to how it gets some of the japanese games then that's just not good enough. If I'm looking for the premier vr experience I'm going to want to play these games now, not spend years waiting.



Lrdfancypants on 01 October 2016

I don't even know what this threads about anymore.



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

I am on the other side of my sig....am I warm or cold?  

Marco....

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Pemalite on 01 October 2016
setsunatenshi said:

Many current PSVR exclusives will definitely come to PC, but the 1st party won't, as they never have done since Sony came to the console market. Many most of the Japanese games also will not come to PC, so that's another big slice of the market.

But they will come to PC. Sony and the Developers have zero choice in the matter. It's a matter of "when" not "if".



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Conina on 01 October 2016
Pemalite said:
setsunatenshi said:

Many current PSVR exclusives will definitely come to PC, but the 1st party won't, as they never have done since Sony came to the console market. Many most of the Japanese games also will not come to PC, so that's another big slice of the market.

But they will come to PC. Sony and the Developers have zero choice in the matter. It's a matter of "when" not "if".

So when do you expect DriveClub VR, Farpoint RIGS, Until Dawn: Rush of Blood, Bound, Gran Turismo Sports, Tumble VR, The London Heist, Ocean Descent, Scavengers Odyssey, VR Luge, Danger Ball, Super Stardust Ultra VR, The Playroom VR, Dreams, Here They Lie, Rez Infinite and many others for other VR headsets?



Kerotan on 01 October 2016
Conina said:
Pemalite said:

But they will come to PC. Sony and the Developers have zero choice in the matter. It's a matter of "when" not "if".

So when do you expect DriveClub VR, Farpoint RIGS, Until Dawn: Rush of Blood, Bound, Gran Turismo Sports, Tumble VR, The London Heist, Ocean Descent, Scavengers Odyssey, VR Luge, Danger Ball, Super Stardust Ultra VR, The Playroom VR, Dreams, Here They Lie, Rez Infinite and many others for other VR headsets?

Haha exactly.  I'll answer that though.  Probably in 10 years when a psvr emulator is out there.  Which you know isn't exactly acceptable to those of us who want these AA and AAA games now or in the near future. 



torok on 01 October 2016
zero129 said:
torok said:

What we do know is this is an old argument that no longer holds true. PC games do sell perfectly well at full price (GTA5, Witcher 3, Fallout 4 etc all say hi). And you go on to name PC getting late ports of AAA games and then name one example GTA5. Pretty much the fact is PC getting a late AAA port is a very very Rare thing indeed so 1st false fact from you.

I'm not saying they necessarily don't sell well, but they do sell a lot less than on consoles, except in a few games that have more PC centric sales. From Steam Spy:

- GTA V: 5M (PS4 alone is 12M, all consoles are close to 50M!!!)

- CoD BOPS 3: 1.2M (14M on PS4 alone)

- Far Cry 4: 750K (PS4 is 4M)

- The Division: 800K (ok, also on Uplay, but I highly doubt more people bought it there - PS4 is 3.5M)

- Fallout 4: 3.4M (PS4 6.9M)

- Alien: Isolation: 800K (PS4 1.2M, close call)

Since this is PC vs console, the more fair thing would be to sum all console versions, which would make this even more distant. Mind that PC games usually sell at lower prices and have insane discounts, so the difference in profit is even bigger.

As I said, it doesn't mean that these are bad sales. They completely justify the PC versions and generate profit, but the priority for most games will be consoles since they sell more. With the new PC APIs and new consoles, porting is much easier, so publishers don't have to choose. It's not the PS2 era anymore, where each version would be completely different, so publishers had to choose.

That's exactly why late AAA ports are becoming more rare, unlike last gen.

First of all PC VR is not just Vive and the Rift. You do know that the is a large number of other companys making VR headsets, some of them are even cheaper then 400!. PC VR will be evolving every year well PS4 is stuck with PSVR. Hell you can even use your phone as a PC VR headset if you so 2nd false fact from you

Phone based VR has way more chance of getting any real ground since the cost is closer to zero. However, mind that it isnt' the best option for games since it is very rudimentar. PSVR, Vive and Rift do employ a lot of latency reduction tech and try to do head tracking as good as possible. Even with that, some still complain about feeling sick. Phone VR isn't good enough to avoid this, so being cheaper has a price. If it was as good as commercial versions, why would companies bother creating PSVR, Vive and Rift? Vive is more expensive than a Galaxy S7 Plus and a Gear VR and in the latter case I'm getting a high-end phone instead of just weird giant glasses.

So yes, there are other VR displays. But right now, the ones that do matter are Vive and Rift, because they will get all support.

Heres some off the top of my head

AAA

Fallout 4 http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-fallout-4-vr-on-vive-offers-a-peek-at-the-future-of-aaa-vr/

Star Citizen (Exclusive)

Elite: Dangerous

Eve: Valkyrie

Alien Isolation (Exclusive)

Assetto Corsa (Exclusive)

Half-Life 2 (Exclusive)

Dying Light (Exclusive)

And this is just off the top of my head an is still missing so many games that i couldnt think of right now + it doesnt even include the fact that pretty much any game canbe made to work in VR and the fact you can use things like the PS2 and Wii emus in VR and i think even the PSP emu supports it. So once again this is your 3rd false fact.

Fallout, SC, Alien and Dying Light are indeed AAA. But Eve, Elite: Dangerous and Assetto Corsa? Please, that's really some stretching. Also Half-life 2 is a bit old. I will also notice that most of the AAA games are actually old, so the impacts is limited.

Still, even if this list was all made of AAA games, PSVR still has more than that just in the launch line-up.

Except the is a number of games that have sold better on PC then on console, also like i said PC games have great sales and AAA games coming late to PC is a very very Rare thing. But please do name even 5 AAA games that released late on PC in the last 2 years.

Yes, some did. But the majority of AAA games don't, that's the point.

I can perfectly accept this. But what a lot of you console guys fail to see is that the is also a large number of people who would also rather play on PC with more and more joining everyday. So you have to come up with lies to try somehow make yourself feel better.

First of all PC is also easy and just work where not talking about pre 2000 PC's here. You can boot stright into Steam Big Picture mode and its just like using a console then. And no port begging?, i seen plenty of console fans wish for games like Civ5, XCom2, Star Citizen, EU4, CK2, WoW, SWTOR, EVE, Dota, Proper TF2, Proper CSGo, Proper Minecraft etc. Fact is this is a silly statment to make since port begging happens on all fronts..

Of course it's easier tha pre-2000s, but still we have a bunch of issues. Troubleshooting demands that you grab a M/KB (so goodbye living room experience), things still do break. Shadowplay was broken on my machine until the last GeForce Experience update fixing this. I've had a lot of stupid shit also, like Metro Last Light not working on my old Phenom II because it was compiled with flags that only the newer AMD FX had. I've had to use DLLs to fix games with stuttering (on a f**** GTX970 and V-sync turned on). Also, a lot of games come with broken FoV settings and I had to edit ini files to avoid getting motion sickness. So yes, PCs do need some maintenance.

I myself antecipated a lot a Xcom 2 PS4 version, so I think you have a point here. I'll concede this just because I want to finish saving earth and kick the aliens' a*** again after Enemy Within.

Arkham Knight PC version is now better then the PS4 version, Also MK is now better too.

Arkham Knight is barely suported on PC nowadays and my PS4 version still do perform better than on my PC by a mile. MK X? Really? Only now the PC version got the DLC packs that are available for months on PS4. Also, it took months to get the new and improved online netcode, so it's really ridiculous to assume that they are anywhere close to being a better version. It's a fun example because I happen to have both games on PS4 and have friends with both games on PC.

And no crappy versions? Fallout 3? PS3, Skyrim PS3, AC unity?, No Mans Sky? etc i could go on and on.

Console games now have patchs for a reason too you know .

Well, AC Unity and NMS can be considered crappy versions on PC too, so that's a big problem. The number of PC versions with bad versions far outweight this.

You can see my reply to you in bold. Its very clear to me that this will indeed be my last reply to you on this since its clear i should leave you be in your dream bubble where the big bad PC cant get you..

Answers not in bold

 



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.

torok on 01 October 2016
Chazore said:
torok said:

The problem with PC gamers like your is that you can't accept that a lot of people would rather play on consoles. It's easy, works well, it receives all games, no port-begging needed, no crappy versions like Arkham Knight or MK and now will be the premier VR version (of couse, unless VR becomes the next 3D). People prefer cheaper things that indeed work instead of expensive stuff that's always giving headaches.

Compared to what?. What number are we talking ehre?. As far as I can tell, you are making a abseless assumption without numebrs to back it up. Of course when you do, you'll have to take notice of the users that use Steam, that buy from GoG, Uplay, Origin, B.net, Physical and then of course the general casual market that exists on PC playing simple games like farmville. The amountt hat prefer to also play on PC is quite huge, but you'd rather justy ignore that entirely or argue it away from existence, still won't stop those numbers though.

I don't know why but you seem to claim "no PC isn't DoA", but then turn around to basically put it out behind the shed with your "factual" arguments. It's like you are trying to make yours sound fair, but really you're just trying to go about the long way of saying that PC stands no chance against nearly anything on the console side of things, you can deny that all you want but your arguments prove this. That is unless you now want to take the mantle and make a bunch of arguments that show positives for the PC side, but I'd imagine those to be "insignificant" or tiny enough to never really matter. Just like how high end users don't matter since low end users are the end all to be all.


Also love how you tossed in "port begging". That tends to show where you stand and which side you go with, well that and "the problem with PC gamers like you".

I will quote my previous answer:

"I'm not saying they necessarily don't sell well, but they do sell a lot less than on consoles, except in a few games that have more PC centric sales. From Steam Spy (PC) and VGC (consoles):

- GTA V: 5M (PS4 alone is 12M, all consoles are close to 50M!!!)

- CoD BOPS 3: 1.2M (14M on PS4 alone)

- Far Cry 4: 750K (PS4 is 4M)

- The Division: 800K (ok, also on Uplay, but I highly doubt more people bought it there - PS4 is 3.5M)

- Fallout 4: 3.4M (PS4 6.9M)

- Alien: Isolation: 800K (PS4 1.2M, close call)

Since this is PC vs console, the more fair thing would be to sum all console versions, which would make this even more distant. Mind that PC games usually sell at lower prices and have insane discounts, so the difference in profit is even bigger."

So here are the numbers to back it up. I can get more from Steam Spy, these are just some examples. No EA game unfortunate since they are Origin Exclusive. As for Uplay and GoG, they don't sell nowhere near as much games as Steam. Physical copies sell just a few too and a lot of them nowadays just come with a Steam code (it's beyond me why companies create boxes to put a code). Using only Steam numbers is quite reasonable. Also, the console number are retail only. It's reasonable to assume that most games today have 10 to 20% of sales as digital downloads, so console sales numbers are probably being more affected by this than the PC ones by losing retail/GoG/Uplay.

Also mind that I'm really not saying that PC is dead. I'm saying that AAA games sell much more on consoles and that's basically a fact for 97% of releases. Not being the n.1 selling platform doesn't mean it's dead. X1 sells less tha PS4 and is healthy. Same for PC. That just means that the priority will be the one who sells more, not that the others will be abandoned.

This is actually only valid for AAA games, since for casual games it's better to just play on PC since any notebook will cut it. However, these segment is probably heading to mobile more these days.

You can really think that I am anti-PC, but I'm just against the PC gamers that go around on the web bragging that PC is the best platform evaaahhh and anyone who plays on consoles is stupid because PC is perfect, so the so called "Master Race". In these guys opinion, nothing on consoles is really good and everything on PC is perfect. So I'm using sales number to prove the point regarding who is the priority for publishers. The numbers are here, so that's it.

We are in a videogame sales site, so everyone knows how much games sell on consoles and we have Steam Spy, so we know how much they sell on PC. You and Zero are questioning my numbers, but I have sources and they are all on my posts.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.