I'm surprised that I couldn't find a thread for this already.

NOTE: Just in case the "(spoiler-filled)" wasn't enough warning - this thread is for discussion involving spoilers, and thus spoiler tags will not be employed. If you do not want to be spoiled regarding the main story, leave now.

I finished the main game for PW:SoJ, today, and there are a few things I felt were worth discussing. Before getting into the real spoilers, though, I thought I'd note something I discovered when I triggered one of the optional dialogues involving Edgeworth (can't remember the exact context, now, but obviously it's in the last case).

It's nothing huge, but it's a throwaway line that actually reveals something significant, in my view. In talking about presenting evidence, Nick makes a reference to Edgeworth doing the same thing in Ace Attorney Investigations (not by name, of course), and Edgeworth asks where he heard about that... and then comments that he believes he knows, and will be further docking the responsible person's pay, or something like that. It's subtle, but a clear reference to Dick Gumshoe, and I have zero doubt that it's intentional, and an indication that Detective Gumshoe is both still employed, and likely to return in the future.

Why am I so confident that he'll return? Well, that's where we come to the main reason I decided to make this thread - this is the MAJOR spoiler, regarding how the game actually ends.

Apollo remains behind in Khura'in to help rebuild the country's legal system, re-establish lawyering, and to help make the way through the massive backlog of cases. It is also indicated that Ema Skye will be working in Khura'in with Nahyuta for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, Nick, Maya and Athena (and Trucy and Edgeworth, of course), return to US/Japan, and this is where the story ends...

I believe this is an indication that the series is being split in two, at least temporarily - with the next Apollo Justice title being set in Khura'in, with the Divination Seance system and Apollo's keen observation skill, along with Ema Skye's forensic skills (fingerprinting, luminol, etc). Meanwhile, the next Phoenix Wright title will be in US/Japan, with Magatama locks (whatever they're called, can't remember the name), Trucy's psychology, and Maya's channelling, with Dick Gumshoe returning in his capacity as detective.

Think about it - developers clearly have preferred Apollo's story, yet fans have been clamouring for more of Nick's story, and the return of the Phoenix/Maya pairing. The way the game ended will allow them to leverage both sides effectively, and to further expand the Ace Attorney universe, as now Apollo can get a protege of his own, providing further gameplay variation.

What does everyone think about my theory? Will we be seeing the return of Dick Gumshoe? Will they make a new game for each of the two primary protagonists of the franchise? Or have I misinterpreted the situation?

And meanwhile, is there anything else about the game that people want to discuss?

Huh, I missed that subtle reference that Edgeworth mentioned. It would be really great if Gumshoe did come back in a sequel. I miss that guy...

As for the ending, I saw it more as retiring Apollo as a character, as I felt while AA6 was an excellent game, I was starting to feel the series is getting too bloated with features and characters. So taking Apollo out seemed like a good way to lighten up the game, although it made me so sad to see him go!

I think it would also be possible for AA to focus more on Phoenix and Athena, as well as possibly introduce another new main character, or at least save that for a later point. Maybe Athena can get more development as well, since I felt she barely got any play time in this game. Perhaps a trial wit Apollo can be an extra or a dlc map. I don't see a separate series with Apollo happening.

Anyways, AA6 was an awesome game! Overall very well done!

Tagged, as I'm not on my computer and I hate writing chunks of texts on my mobile.

I did see that Edgeworth reference since I love rubbing the Attorney's badge on everyone's face. Since Apollo is where he is now, it's a plausible theory that Gumshoe will be working where Nick, as opposed as Ema on Khur'ain.

I don't really think Apollo is being retired, like Cloudman says, and the main reason is that they won't simply ditch the "Insight" mechanic introduced here. The only way to keep it though, is to leave someone on Khur'ain. It makes perfect sense!

On a honest note, I didn't like Phoenix attitude on the final case. I loved that Apollo got the spotlight, since they made an amazing development on his character throughout, but as a consequence Phoenix suffered greatly; he batantly lied and warped the truth during the first half of the case (and accused an innocent man, and before you say "but Maya", might as well remind you that Phoenix already went through a very similar situation in Justice for All, and he acted entirely different, for that was his purpose as a lawyer), throwing his character development off a window just to make him Apollo's rival. And during the second half...he's barely useful. Maybe they were trying to make the point that Apollo has surpassed his master, but heck, even Phoenix says he would have given up several times (really? He of all the people?)...nghhh. It was painful to watch.

Case 4, as great as it was seeing Blackquill, it felt like pure filler, without even an investigation sequence thrown in. Sure, that has been done already in other cases (3-4, for example), but it really felt like "let's give Athena something to do" and call it a day.

Overall a good game, but I struggle to rate it highly. At least it was a bit more challenging than AA5.

I dunno, I'd rather have to go through certain steps like an idiot, but ended up figuring it out myself (unless one were to abuse the "hint" system), than playing a game that the obvious is already present but you have to go through the notions of doing boring, padding nonsensical steps while also having the game telling you what to do or what to present 95% of the time.

I'm not sure I agree with that notion, either. There's visual novels that put a certain degree of challenge for the player to overcome, and not illogical sections that are merely trial n' error. Hotel Dusk comes to mind, for example.

Well, I did say it could be dlc, or a fun extra map and not integral to the story. With the game having all 3 characters, it was starting to get too full.

Also, while I agree with the 1st half of case 5, I think the situation is a little different from this case and the one in 3. Phoenix was forced into a tough situation where a friend's life was at stake, so he was tied down to a tight situation, unlike with 3, where Phoenix learned about the truth and had to fight against it.

As for case 4, I had the issue that I felt like is stunted the growth of Athena. Watching her fall under pressure very easily and needed to be carried by Blackquill was pretty painful. It was a good case, but it could have been handled better.

The trial where you go up against Phoenix is a civil trial, so he wasn't actually bringing any criminal charges against Datz.  In AA2, if Phoenix had complied, it would have meant a killer going free and an innocent woman going to prison, likely for life.  If he succeeded here, it would have meant Paul getting the orb, and Datz possibly being arrested to stand trial.  Even if he was successful in convincing the court that Datz had killed the Dr, they'd still have to have an actual trial, where Phoenix could have defended him if he though he was innocent.  Plus, Datz is pretty good at escaping from custody anyways.  It's still a little morally iffy, but the consequences of Phoenix complying were a lot less dire than in AA2, and the consequence of failing was Maya dying, so it's understandable that he'd act different.  

Also, Phoenix didn't say he would have given up several times.  What he said was, there were several times where he would have understood if Apollo gave up.  He's basically saying he underestimated Apollo.

This may be my favorite of the AA games, although the only other one I've played through recently was 2.  I think the supporting cast outside the main characters was better than it's been in other games.  Dhurke, Rayfa, Nahyuta, and Datz were great characters, and the Queen was probably the most hateable prosecutor in the series so far. Athena's case was indeed filler, but as far as filler goes, it was one of the better ones.  I actually think it worked well as a palette clenser between the more serious 3rd and 5th cases.  

I strongly suggest you people don't buy the "Theater" DLCs. As...errr...fun, I guess, some conversations were, it's just the mother of all scams. You're paying for a "unlock key" of content that it's already on the game, and it lasts around one hour, for 4 euro/dollars.

What exactly are the theater things?  Are they cases or something?

They're "what if" scenarios, composed of a mock trial where you do some dumb things, like proving a certain classic Ace Attorney character is actually someone else.